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Sennheiser HD800 in the house, My expectations were I would find a bright analytical can that was weak on bass with an out of the head soundstage. This is what I was expecting based on the hundreds of threads / reviews / comments...........My reason for wanting to try them was I wanted a better presentation / soundstage
Actually hearing them was a shock to the system,
1st they were not overly bright and analytical, though they could sound piercing I found that was more source related, in order to attribute that quality to the cans one would expect they sound the same on all material. They sounded sublime on some material and like crap on other material. I started paying attention to selection and using long time considered standards for QUALITY RECORDINGS and I was richly rewarded (dont confuse this statement with meaning high resolution 24 /192 etc...etc...etc... I am talking about albums that are well known as being masterfully recorded and mastered like Steely Dan Aha, all the resolution in the world will not cover up a poor recording and in fact may make it sound worse IME.)
Next was the Bass, not sure where this reputation was garnered for light on bass perhaps it started with people comparing them with planers or bass heavy cans, I was nearly floored by the impact the HD800 presented, Listening to Sometimes God Smiles Prism track and the superb Sheffield Drum Tracks, and SMV Thunder albums proved anything but lacking in bass. Bass was deep with texture and impact, not Bloated or exaggerated. I is true they dont dig down in to the sub bass regions as well as my HE500 they also dont muddy the waters. color me very happy with the Bass
Soundstage, My expectations of some miraculous out of head experience was daunted It has been my experience that headphones do MANY things correct, soundstage is NOT one of them, I feel like all the press concerning the soundstage on the HD800 is more about the spatial imagery and not what I consider soudstage, I came to headphones out of necessity from systems that consisted of SET amps and Horn Speakers those systems presented an almost physical image of the material in front of you allowing to to Hear / imagine the individuals and instruments in there perspective places. while headphones can recreate the space in the material it is all still firmly inside your head, I have heard only a couple examples of material which can create that out of head experience Chesky Records Ultimate Headphone is one of those. While I dont see the HD800 as having a true soundstage experience I admit its spacial separation and imagery is better
An unexpected Benefit The Hd800 is SUPERB at low level listening, while my HE500 tends to need quite a bit of volume to really shine and open up the HD800 seems to care less, it plays very well at about any volume. My Wife & Ears thank you Sennheiser
As I see it the largest drawback to having the HD800 is now something like 25% of my music is unlistenable unless I keep both the HE500 and the HD800, suggestions on how to break that news to the better half will be appreciated.........I have long said I see no reason for multiple cans the HD800 has shown me I was wrong
Kenzie Headphone, & Garage 1217 Sunrise, Metrum Octave, Audiophilleo AP1 W/ PP, HiFiMan HE500's Modded. Sounds so Good
http://ampsandsound.com/products/amps/se-84/
Follow Ups:
Actually, for Acoustic recordings (with a few $k of line conditioning in front of the playback chain) the HD800 aren't being "Ananalytical". they are only working as "Mechanically" as their design allows them to. The perception that the 800 is "seeing further" into the music is a mistaken one.There are parts built into the HD800 that extend the duration of the more prominent played notes .
This might work as an enhancement for some genres of music, but not those that have " honest" naturally occuring Soundstage sound on the recordings. The reason the HD800 has a rep for being bright, is because the sound of the extended played notes is masking the start & stop transients of other notes long enough to interrupt the fundamental sound of these notes to develop.The continuous nature of how the music is being presented is creating some "sonic overhang"
You would think I don't particullarly care for how the HD800 sounds ! The driver that Sennheiser uses for this headphone is exceptional & as such this headphone has the same "potential". I honestly don't know what Senn. was thinking about or what they were listening
to when they voiced these headphone to work in cojunction with a "ring radiator"!
Without this "feature" in "play"the HD800 is all the good "hype" you've heard about them (When used with better equipment). When using Sennheiser's version they will work against your hearing whatever qualities your playback chain can bring out of the music (unless the recordings you generally listen to are mediocre at best)
... (When used with better equipment)."
What, exactly, is "better amplification" for the HD-800? If you've already posted on the *secret to success* with the HD-800, I'm unaware of that. Please share the secret, once again.
You are also the only one to ever imply that the "ring radiator" used is UNDENIABLY the cause of the types of problems you've just described, AFAIK. How do you know this to be *absolutely true*?
Well ,I suppose just saying "using better equipment" was pretty vague & misleading.. It's more a matter of using them in a better placed system approached playback system.
It's the source components you use that make or break the quality of the music you listen to "better".Most people only think they know what the music they listen to (Good,Bad, or Indifferent) sounds like. There are source components that will allow you to hear "further" into what was recorded than others. There's really no "Secret" going on here ! It's way too late to try to find significant improvements at the amplification stage.
Now, the reason I've assigned these problems to what the "ring radiator" does to the sound,
is because I have removed these parts from my HD800. I don't listen to much of any music that isn't Acoustic (mostly Orchestal, other Classical, Singer Songwriter , a tiny bit of Acoustic Jazz) so I don't know how much of what I could hear through the stock HD800s bothered others, but I'm positive that what I'm hearing from them now is completely free of the mechanically generated ,frequency interrupting & imaging contouring artifacts post my "intervention". I'm not so sure that if you just cover the rings completely with corresponding rings cut from a sheet of dBNeutralizer damping material from Herbie's it might be enough to
defeat what the radiator is doing to the natural imaging, but I'd still want make sure the protective screen were'n't still connected to the metal ring.
I'm guessing there may be other people who don't like what the ring radiator can potentially
do,but I guess they're just not crazy enough to be vocal about it !
Have you seen this before?http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#sf7lop62gVexexPE.97
There appears to be some treble resonance in HD800 relating to the hard pieces on the inside of the earcup, which this modification absorbs.
A quotation:
It's important to understand that it's not the driver putting out the excess between 6-8kHz, but rather that there is an acoustic "ringing" in the space within the earcup. Sort of like when you blow across the top of a bottle and it toots. Of course it's much less dramatic than that.
Edits: 11/24/15 11/24/15
He,he,he,....yea, Tyll's version of the Anax Mod was the first one that I tried as it was probably the most straightforward (& simplified) way to perform this mod at the time.
The drivers aren't "directly" responsible, but the parts that are attached to them where they attach to the earcups are. The "Ring / Trapezoid" inserts to the earcups knock down the excessive boost to trouble frequency response area quite a bit & many people are completely satisfied with the result.
I suppose I was still hearing some "anomalies" that the Mod didn't "fix" to my liking. (Which
I'd rather not rehash ) . If you are interested in this Mod, by all means do try it. It is completely reversible.
... Sennheiser was trying to make the HD-800 sound as much like a pair of loudspeakers as possible (room acoustics effects inclusive). "Overhang" is exactly what you get with a pair of speakers in a real room.
That wasn't what I was affter,as I failed to comlete explaining that this occurs due to he fact you're not hearing the sound of the recorded music in the same "realtime" as it exists in the recording..
To me it sounds like the "ring radiator" (The ring holding the driver & the black protective screen that sits behind it, to the headphone) is working like a mild "reverb" circuit. I think it is
working like this because once these parts are gone, all the inner detail on your recordings
"magically"appears .
The trick here is that you may prefer what this "effect" was doing for your music as I think it is
probably music genre specific as to if you think how the HD800 is enhacement to what you listen to, or if you feel it is being too intrusive by creating a "different" version of what you're listening to.... But the HD800 are great headphones (fixed, that is)
So ,no it isn't giving me exactly what I get with a pair of speakers in a room. Neither my Spendor SP1s or Magneplanar 2.7QR loudspeakers changed the realtime recorded transients enough to change their connective relationships for the sake of how the music was
imaging.. Making assumed room corrections inside a headphones are a complete fail for me.
I didn't ask for it, nor do I need it !
Now, you can delete your other replies (below). This one seems to be the best of the three.
Interesting theory, BTW.
There is a thread over on "H. fi" that starts with a prelude from Sennheiser with an Introductory title of "Redefining Excellence" that gave me a little chuckle when I read it !
Senn. has been in the Headphones business enough years to have the "Technical Chops" to make reliable products. In many cases when you use them with playback equipment that is equally tech advantaged (or more so), they can't help overstepping what they need to do,
because they're not "voiced" to sound neutral with this level of equipment. You really can't fault Sennheiser for doing this as the majority of anyone who listens to music feels that as long as you're using "good" speakers (or headphones) the rest of what you use will fall in linebehind them correctly. It's really just a case of Sennheiser deciding to act like your playback system's "Audio Godfather".
I think it's time to take a visit to "H.fi" to see how many ridiculous postings I find from posters who have more in common with the title "Clueless Supremus" than other silly titles someone on the site decided to give them. I'll make some friends for life if I suggest you can fix any headphones weaknesses by just using the most popular device over there a Tube Headphone Amp ...."Ooooo" (as Buggs would say "What maroons")
Apparently you know more than anyone else. It is shocking you are not the head designer at Sennheiser
To imply that everyone who believes a tube amp can help smooth over a bright edge / trait is a moron, shows who the real moron is.
I have no doubt you may be knowledgeable when it comes to audio, to assume you can determine what others hear based on your opinions is at best asinine. ALL HEARING IS SUBJECTIVE
What A hears or how they interpret what they hear is pretty much guaranteed to be different than what B Hears or how they interpret same
I dont personally rely on anyone's opinion or otherwise to decide my chain of gear, and I frankly doubt Sennheiser or any speaker / Headphone company sets out to build a product based on what consumers may have to play in conjunction with that product. It would be a dubious task at best considering the hundreds of thousands of choices consumers have to make up there preferred chain.
IMHO Sennheiser and all other companies offering a product develop a product they feel superior based on there tech in the hopes that consumers will buy it.
Your interpretation of what I posted was way more aggressively incorrect then I was at any
point trying to convince anyone of anything .
I really don't care to take hip shots at anyone for the sake of trying to promote what I think
I think I know!
I honestly would never suggest that "someone" was a moron for what "They" might have to say . That's not to say that I don't think some of what they believe to be a bit too simplistic, as even smart people can have some silly ideas (If Im guilty of anything it would be using a dopey scenario, & then making a "careless" dopey comment)
I hate when I have to explain myself to others, but the alternative to this would be let people think I'm a non-thinking person trying to promote things because they're contrary to conventional thought . I will admit I'm not a conventional thinker, but I don't have any agenda to convince anyone of anything outside of "their" comfort zone (& I need an Almond Snickers
bar for my comfort zone about now) (I was about to start singing some of the Jimi Hendrix song "Hey Joe...where you gonna go with that gun in your hand", but decided against doing that) (oops!! being dishonest we can't have that)
or HD-700i ;-)
'i' for, 'I' can tolerate them.
HD-800 look priced WAY over my head, but the HD-700 wouldn't be out of the question.
Have not heard the 700, it tends to get a bad rep, I have heard owned the HD650 and hey are great although in another league as far as clarity and resolution, headstage, & refinement
Wife who generally does not care about audio, listened yesterday while I was out, I get home she tells me " we are trading Headphones" :(
System consists of, pc running Jriver to the Audiophilleo Ap1 with PP, to my MHDT Havana upgraded, to my ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone amp and then to either the Sennheiser HD800 or the HiFiMan HE500
When I first bought my DNA Sonett headphone amp (original dual XLR balanced version), I had the chance to pick up a pair of matching HD-800s but I passed on the package deal because I had heard that the HD-800s often sound overly bright with many recordings.
Now, I almost wish that I had bought those HD-800s back then, because the Sonett and the HD-800s are supposed to be one of the most synergistic matches ever made for Headphone Heaven.
Find the right amp and those HD-800s will sing!
Try one of these - Bottlehead Crack amp with the Speedball p/s. What to spend days with cans on your head? Then add a Corda crossfeed circuit to the Crack.
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
Tubes help. 6V6's are nice.
Sound Quest SQ84-V2. I have never heard any 'brightness' on my HD800's.
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
NIce looking amp heres a pic of my tubes
You and your amp are posting from the FUTURE!
Great Scott!
"To Learn Who Rules Over You, Simply Find Out Who You Are Not Allowed to Criticize."
-Voltaire
.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
What are you using to drive them?
Love to get a pair for a week with a decent 'balanced' cable to see how they compare to my current HD-600.
Had a chance to listen to both the HD650 and HD800 balanced and single ended at the Sennheiser booth at RMAF but the source DAC/amp or source computer sucked SO BAD I could tell NO DIFFERENCE between the four options!
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