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In Reply to: Classics of the 70s posted by Classic Audio on October 26, 2000 at 05:37:38:
Most TUBE gear from yesterday sounds better to my ears than most modern tube and solid-state gear of today.It is probobly best to avoid most(if not all)older solid-state gear completely.Better yet...avoid solid-state amps and pre-amps all together.That is if you enjoy listening to music rather than components!
Follow Ups:
Yes. Tube equipment of that day was very special. Solid state was just making its debut. And a lot of it was not very good.I think that the best SS equipment today comes close to the sound quality of tubed equipment but that was not true then.
I am interested in an outboard power amp of 70s vintage to mate with the front end of that Advent 300 I've got. I don't know if you would find its sound appealing or not but I like it.
What do you think of the Dynaco tube equipment of that day? A lot of the other stuff is getting too pricey for me - especially to insert in my second system which is where I intend to use it.
It's definately true that early solid-state gear was not that good.
Today's modern tube and solid-state designs are sounding more and more alike.It's becoming hard to tell the sound differances between today's modern tube and solid-state gear.The differances are not a big as one would think.The problem that I have with today's modern tube gear is that it tends to sound bright,sterile,2D,harsh,and grainy.....much like today's modern solid-state designs.Analytical...Yes!Musical....NO!!!
I think that Dynaco Tube gear is great.In fact I prefer my Dynaco ST-70 to many modern "Hi-End" amps that I've had in my systems in the past(Krell KSA 100s,Krell KST 100,Cary SLA 70B Signature,Conrad Johnson MV-52,Classe CA 150,Classe CA 100,Acurus A-150,NAD 214,B&K-forgot the model number,among a few other hi-priced amps that I've auditioned elsewhere as well).The Dynaco just lets the music flow to me in a nice 3D natural,musical way.Most modern amps have just thrown the music at me with a shovel causing me to eventually turn the music off and leave the room due to the fatigue from brightness.
Another bonus with the Dynaco is that you can get one cheap.I paid $250.00 for mine.A friend of mine just found a Dynaco ST-70,Dynaco Pass 3 pre-amp,Dynaco tube FM tuner,and an original AR turntable for a grand total of $50.00 at a garage sale(Lucky bastard!)We hooked up his Dynaco gear up with a cheap CD Changer and some cheap speakers(I cannot even remember the name at the moment).The sound was better than
what I've heard in most "Hi-Fi Salons" with mega-priced gear!We couldn't believe it!Here is this set-up that cost next to nothing that sounded so killer with such crappy speakers!It really makes one wonder what is going on w/hi-end audio these days!SALESHACKS is my call!So yes....I think that a Dynaco ST-70 is one of the best amps that one can buy PERIOD!
yes truly classic in every sense of the word.caveats, though.
The early tube products, whether home built or "professionally" assembled, would now be approaching (or surpassing?) 40years.
These units were built to a price point.
The word is cheap.
Particular areas to be wary of are ALL capacitors - may be leaky, phenolic circuit boards that may be rotting away - the circuit traces were not the best to start with, and resistors. These parts can deteriorate regardless of usage.
There are cases of units with original tubes in better shape than the rest of the amp! (Only used by a little old lady for Sunday afternoon teas.)
Depending on the found condition, and the quality of any prior "service" work, specimens may best be considered as source of transformers and chassis - be prepared to replace/refurbish almost everything else. Some of the prices on EBay and others for Dynas in questionable condition are scandalous. But if you think those are outrageous, search for old McIntosh or Marantz ( real Marantz, not Superscope of the 70's)ST70 and the Mk series of monoblocks still sound musical by today's standards, but they can be bettered, and may need hundreds of $ to refurbish to "good as new" condition.
There are of course numerous sources of upgrade and rebuild kits to restore or enhance the performance.
Invest wisely.
Dynaco Stereo 70 amps are nice amps but they are old. If you find a used one the least is would need is all new caps to operate safely and to sound anywhere near it's original performance level. It will not sound as it once did though with this minimal amount of work. If you cannot do the work yourself this would be quite expensive. Good tubes for the 70 are also not cheap and you would have to learn to set the bias with a meter as well. Idealy the amp would be completely overhauled which would cost much more than the price of the amp itself. I also considered returning to the tube systems of my youth but had to face these realities. I use Musical Fidelity SS gear which sounds great and is convenient, but it is not classic/vintage gear - yet anyway.
Tubes for the Dynaco are pretty reasonable except for the 7199's.Svetlana EL-34's-around $15.00 or less apiece.Sound very close to the old Mullards IMO.
NOS RCA or other USA NOS branded 5R4 Rectifier-around $10-$15 in place of the very expensive Mullard 5AR.Many including myself like the sound of a 5R4 instead of a 5AR4.
NOS 7199's...yes quite expensive IMO at around $30.00 a piece.
The word on the street is to stay away from the cheaper new production 7199's.As far as caps go....yeah a multi-section cap replacement is a little
expensive.The Black Cats are also something to watch out for leakage.
Although mine seem to work just fine(I had a good tech fully check over my Dynaco ST-70 as well as get rid of the selenium rectifier in the bias supply)."If it ain't broken don't fix it!"Even with this cost the Dynaco ST-70 is still cheaper and sounds FAR better than most "Hi-End " money-pit amps of today IMO!Although the SALESHACKS will lead one to think different.
Hi Scott:I have owned this amp factory fresh as well as used and rebuilt and this is what I base my comparison on. I had a pair of them rebuilt twice in a seventeen year period and the declining sound quality was easy to hear when compared to their original sound. I am happy that you are satisfied with the sound of your partialy renovated amp, but I doubt that I would be. A much better sounding amp by the way from the same period IMO is the Eico HF-81 which I feel is in another league entirely. It would require the same maintenance as any vintage amp but in the end would give you a much better end result. An overhauled HF-81 I feel would compete well with modern amps that are much more expensive but I would not say so of the Stereo 70 (tweaking aside). It all boils down to personal experience and taste. Also when I mentioned "good" tubes I was referring NOS Mullards which were always my preference. If the Svetlana's are a quality item and cheap then that's a good thing. I have not listened to them and have no opinion. I read about a new factory in Russia that is producing better quality tubes that are not overpriced, though I am not certain what models/types, and cannot find the source now. It may have been Tesla. Hopefully we will not end up bombing this new source of tubes. Anyway, I advocate the use of vintage gear, but feel that it is important to be prepared for the additional expenses that are necessary in order to truely re-live the past.
Vintage gear does need a bit of maintanence to keep it up and running.
It's really worth it IMO.I've never heard a Eico HF-81.Is it more of a tubey sounding amp(Dynaco) or more of a McIntosh-like brighter more analytical type sound?I suppose it's all personal taste.I feel that my Dynaco ST-70 sounds FAR better than any big dollar amp that I've had in my systems prior....Geez....I wish I realized this when I first got started in this hobby!!!!I too looked at the Dynaco ST-70 when I first got into this hobby with the attitude that "something THAT old just CAN'T sound very good or compete with anything made today"I just HAD to have that monster Krell!!How wrong I was!Needless to say,thousands of dollars thrown down the toliet later.....
As far as the Mullard EL-34's vs. the Svetlana EL-34's....they really do sound similar.Not EXACTLY the same but very close.Close enough
to as where I'm would never bother to pay the differance in cost between the two!
Hello again Tom: It's hard for me to describe the sound of an amp but what was different about the HF-81 was that instruments sounded more real. My pet peeves are cymbals, percussive's including piano, brass and strings and the Eico did a better job of it. So I guess that it would be in the more analytical category but it was also full sounding. Vocals on either amp were great, the bass was a little firmer on the Eico. I used Rogers LS3/5a moniters at the time that I had both the Dynacos and the Eico (not Advents). The Eico used EL84's and was constructed point to point instead of using boards as Dynaco did. It did not use the 7199 but something else, I can't remember what. I am not technically inclined and am just a listener. If you can work on this stuff yourself it would be a nice addition to your Dynaco amp. I have recently realized that I prefer to have two different systems and/or a variety in one system. It is easier than expecting one setup to do it all and it is more fun. Since I have already had quite a few push/pull tube amps I have decided to put together a little inexpensive SET setup for our spare bedroom (you know the two choices). This will be new to me and hopefully as much fun as the old tube amps were. I understand your enthusiasm for the Dynaco as I felt the same as you when I first owned it. Then I felt the same way about the Eico, then I picked up a pair of McIntosh 30 mono blocks that were even better and on and on. I will not agree with you that a Stereo 70 blows away modern tube equivalents like the Jolida for instance. But I will say that it is a much more "musical" sounding amp than any of the NAD's, Rotel's, Arcam's etc. and that if I had choose among any of these and other SS offerings I would definatly go for the Dynaco because it sounds much more like music.
I like the sound of my Dyanco ST-70 more than my Conrad-Johnson MV-52.
I also like the sound of my Dyanco more than a CARY SLA 70B Signature that it replaced.Although the C-J and Cary amps sound real good,I prefer the Dynaco.It makes better music driving my B&W Matrix 804's
than the Cary,C-J or any Krell ever did.It could be the opposite in another system and set-up for another listener.BTW:A few years back a friend of mine and I hooked up an old Bogen integrated amp from the 1950's to his B&W Matrix 803's in place of a Krell KAV300i.The sound was fantastic.We tried to hook the Krell back up and could no longer tolerate the harshness and brightness of the Krell.It sounded NASTY!He sold the Krell went tubes and never looked back.
Scott: All of this talk about the old tube gear got me to thinking of all the old amps and preamps that I have owned. There is one Stereo 70 that I cannot place or account for. It was built from a kit and it one of the first models with the brown cage. I do not recall selling or loaning it and am certain that I did not bring it with me to LA when I moved here in 1976. I beleive that it is still at my parents house where I stayed for a few months before the move. I have been back many times since and the room that it may be in has been used for storage (floor to ceiling) for almost 25 years. The room was also taken off the air and heating systems a long time ago so I imagine that the tubes would be shot. Iowa winters and summers can be very cruel. Hopefully I will be able to dig it out my next trip back. I am sorry to hear that you had to spend so much money on those other women before you met your match.
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