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In Reply to: RE: I must profess to being amused by all of this posted by Analog Scott on September 24, 2022 at 23:52:39
Excellent - respect!
One other thing I still want to emphasize with the Steinberg/Pittsburgh Command Classics recordings on which the HDTT issues are based: I grew up with the Command Classics LP's, and, in a number of cases, no other re-masterings or reissues (even from companies which use the original masters) sound as close to those originally issued Command Classics LP's as the HDTT versions do - of course, that's just IMHO.
I know you'll laugh, because you'll surely bring up your point that auditory memory is so short-lived, and therefore untrustworthy. And in the case of my example above, we're talking decades old auditory memories! ;-)
Follow Ups:
"auditory memory is so short-lived"Yeah, like about 15 seconds, if you're really good. Seven to ten if you're not.
:)
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 09/25/22
Memory doesn't work by osmosis. Our memory is connected to our internal clock. Each event in our lives is time stamped with the time day coordinates. That's how we can remember what we did on a given day last week, or what we had for dinner last night. Or how we know when it's time to wake up.For music one needs to be able to analyze and identify the sound characteristics of the music so they can be preserved in memory. The subtle characteristics too. Air, tone, dynamic range, speed, pace, realism, how much the music grabs you. If you can't remember something it's very likely because it was never put in memory. Some things just aren't retrievable from memory. Memory is a skill, memory can be improved, like tennis or reading speed and comprehension. Memory is also an ability. Practice makes perfect.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up
Thru tarmac, to the sun again
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing
To have all these things in our memories hoard
And to use them
To help us
To find...
Edits: 09/26/22 09/26/22 09/26/22
To your last point, I just played that Moody Blues album sometime last month. I love the Moody Blues' music, but unfortunately, never saw them live. An old friend of mine used to play with the Festival Orchestra. She still sends me a Christmas card or present every year.
Moving on: Yes and no.
One aspect of "memory" is longterm memory - things which we've learned. I learned the alphabet in grade school, and still remember it.
Another is shortterm memory - things whick we just recently saw, heard, felt or smelled. Much music is in that category. We can remember the performance of the notes, but can we remember the exact tone quality of the instrument? - no. If you say "yes", you're fooling yourself.
The DETAILS of a sound fade away very quickly in our memories. As I wrote previously, within about seven to fifteen seconds, depending on your skills.
BTW, I've still not found what I'm looking for.
YT, Dr. Livingston
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
If only you could hear what I've heard with my ears.We rely on our short term and long term memory, as both humans and as audiophiles. If you don't have a good memory your progress will suffer. Those who cannot learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat history.
"People would generally be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little." - PT Barnum
Edits: 09/26/22
What is lost and altered in the first few seconds after hearing it is lost. What we are left with are key cues that trigger recognition. But not a complete aural document that can be used as an objective reference
And you wouldn't be able to remember words and sentences spoken in your favorite movies. Visual memory works the same way, we can easily recall entire scenes from our favorite movies. Of course memory can be improved like any skill. Eat more fish.
,
When a guitarist, let's say it's Hendrix or Keith Richards or Jeff Beck, due to complexity of their playing, or any guitarist for that matter, plays a song in concert does he play according to his memory of only "broad sweeps" or does he play it in it's completeness - including fine details? Ditto for a concert pianist who plays Rachmaninov.Pop quiz 2 - do you remember exactly what you had for dinner last night or only broad sweeps? If your answer is broad sweeps you probably need to eat more fish.
Edits: 09/26/22 09/26/22 09/26/22
... but I wonder if they are any better than we are at accurately storing memories of the type (and in the manner) that Analog Scott is talking about here ?
Practice makes perfect. Same with memory. Some memories can be saved automatically or subconsciously but there probably needs to be some focus and intention involved for best results. It also helps if someone who has superior listing skills shows you the way. You can't save in memory that which you aren't capable of discerning. Not everyone knows what air or sweetness sounds like.
Edits: 09/26/22
we retain enough to trigger recogniable patterns. We don't fully record it mentally. It's how our hearing evolved. Back when we were hunter/gatherers along with our ancestors going back at least 10 million years our hearing served the purpose of finding food and not becoming food. Our brians are wired for quick recognition. For that we needed data reduction and trigger recognition. If we actually put the entire sound to long term memory the time it would take to process it because of the massive amount of data would be self defeating. We would lose the food and become the food while waiting to process and match the sounds.
As such our long term aural memories are reduced to a very very very small fraction of the original signal. Our brains fill in the rest of the missing data.
Try 3 million give or take. Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
Scott wrote,
"Our brians (sic) are wired for quick recognition. For that we needed data reduction and trigger recognition. If we actually put the entire sound to long term memory the time it would take to process it because of the massive amount of data would be self defeating. We would lose the food and become the food while waiting to process and match the sounds."
Life of Brian?
Early man had to be able to precisely locate potential enemy, man or beast, and calculate its speed and direction. Even it's acceleration, the rate of velocity change. So early man had to have both hearing and vision skills, along with precision memory skills, including ability to integrate on the fly. A skill by the way the squirrel never acquired, the squirrel can't determine how fast a car is traveling or the direction it's going.
" As such our long term aural memories are reduced to a very very very small fraction of the original signal. Our brains fill in the rest of the missing data."
A person's ability to retain memories of sound are a combination of innate ability to remember and skill acquired by learning and practice. If you're unable to remember what you heard the day before how can audiophiles progress? You have to be able to determine whether the sound is better or worse or about the same. Whether it's a cable or preamp or tweak or during the night versus daytime, whatever.
You have to be trained to know what to listen for before you can put it all in memory. Otherwise there won't be much of anything in memory. It's like reading a book, some people have much greater reading comprehension than average so their memories will be more complete.
An Ice Age Genetic Mal-Adaptation.
Nasty stuff.
But back then, it help an ancestor survive the winter without lapsing into anemia.
So--mixed blessing.
Without that gene having been switched off, I would not be here.
john
Nt
Nt
but not accurate as usual. My Mommy wore Army Boots, so did my Daddy
Gosh, you really are as old and as curmudgeonly as is said all over the web now. No need for speculation anywhere
.
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