|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
98.48.36.74
In Reply to: RE: You must understand posted by E-Stat on July 18, 2022 at 11:55:04
you have to engage Alon Wolf of Magico Loudspeakers and ask him why he only provides ONE pair of terminals on the back of his speakers.
Then wait a while. :-)
Follow Ups:
Nt
... it is just another good example of how experienced professionals in ANY industry or professional often disagree about the best solution or answer for a particular situation.
We're saying the same thing, actually. That's why it's an appeal to authority - a logical fallacy -even when the person used to support an argument is an expert in the field.
In cases like this, both sides of the argument are doing exactly the same thing -- declaring =their= guy to be the recognized expert, and therefore, their position has greater authority than the other side's. I've seen this in my field (commercial insurance) where I've been an "expert witness" deployed against the other side's "expert witness." I've also see this as an observer in a number of lawsuits, such as medical malpractice claims.
In none of the above is either side automatically committing a "logical fallacy." Each expert is simply presenting their opinion based on their long experience and specialization in their field.
At least in the particular situation of this thread, there is not much at stake.
It's a logical fallacy in any argument to mention a person who is either an expert in the field or an expert in any field, related or not, and expect by using that person's name and opinion you automatically win the argument - no matter which side of the argument you're on. That's why it's called a logical fallacy, the fallacy is believing that's enough evidence or proof to win the argument. It's also sometimes called name dropping.Einstein said there's no such thing as black holes, but you would lose the argument if you used Einstein as you supporting evidence. That's why they call that particular logical fallacy an Appeal to Authority.
Another popular audiophile logical fallacy is Appeal to Age/experience. Example, I have more than 30 years of experience in high end audio so you can trust me when I say ___ .
Edits: 07/19/22 07/19/22 07/19/22 07/19/22
Interesting discussion, but back in 1939 when Einstein said there were no black holes, there was no way for anyone on either side of the argument to prove their point.
In his paper, Einstein said that while the idea of black holes was suggested by his theory of relativity, it was "not convincing" rather than impossible -- quite a different approach from a dogmatic appeal to authority.
There is nothing wrong with being an expert in one's field, but the trick is that the qualified person can back it up with data and a good explanation rather than "because I say so."
That reminds me of a fellow named Arnold I knew some decades ago who was very proud of his 20 years worth of experience in my industry. Sadly, he was often wrong. I thought the best explanation from one of my colleagues was "Arnold's problem is not his 20 years of experience, but rather that its been the same year over, and over, and over...."
You are misunderstanding what Appeal to Authority means. Einstein's theory or opinion regarding black holes is not the issue. It's when someone, let's say he's an audiophile, uses Einstein to support an argument, that is an Appeal to Authority. It doesn't matter whether Einstein was right or wrong about black holes or anything else. It's a simple case of name dropping. I used the example of black holes to show you Einstein wasn't always right about everything, which is probably what most people assume. He wasn't right about quantum mechanics either.Another example, if there's an argument regarding wire directionality, if someone says he knows a PhD in electronics who says wire directionality is hogwash, that is an Appeal to Authority, it's a type of argument thst looks sort of good on the surface since the dude's friend is a PHD, right? But the PhD can't be there to be questioned or cross examined so to speak - that's another reason why it's a logical fallacy. As you said, experts can be on both sides of the argument. So whose expert is right? This is part of the problem in audio discussions of a technical nature usually but could be anything. It's often exceedingly difficult to get to the bottom of any debate on any topic. Take for example, how electricity works in cables, in particular cables in audio systems.
Edits: 07/19/22 07/19/22 07/19/22 07/19/22 07/19/22
But, that's a thing for some.
Knowing how to argue is half the battle. I was a master debater in college.
Alon Wolf why he doesn't accommodate bi-wiring on his speakers!
Trust me, it's worth it.
"Alon Wolf why he doesn't accommodate bi-wiring on his speakers!"
The user guide for the Magico Model 5 states there are two sets of terminals, and "bi-wiring" is stated as an option.......
Nt
It could be that the designer doesn't believe in bi-wiring, but has it in his products in case some of his customers opt for it...... A good designer gives his products those options, even if he himself doesn't believe in them.
Chances are good that some purchasers of these speakers had bi-wiring or bi-amping as part of the decision process.
Who probably has the best sounding system?1. High end amplifier manufacturer
2. High end cable manufacturer
3. System engineer
4. EE Electrical Engineer
5. Tweak manufacturer
6. Speaker manufacturer
7. Senior AES member
8. Controlled blind testing guru
9. Musician
10. Physics PhD
Edits: 07/20/22
When you argue away any attempts at rationality, what is left?
Who probably has the best sounding system?
Jay from Jay's Audio Lab (link)..... (Stress the word "probably"..... )
1. High end amplifier manufacturer
2. High end cable manufacturer
3. System engineer
4. EE Electrical Engineer
I don't know.....
5. Tweak manufacturer
You can answer that one..... ;-]
6. Speaker manufacturer
7. Senior AES member
8. Controlled blind testing guru
I don't know......
9. Musician
Classical: Vladimir Horowitz....
Rock: Jimi Hendrix or Neil Peart......
Jazz: Louis Armstrong.....
10. Physics PhD
Albert Einstein.......
I can't help wondering what Jay's position is on wire and cable directionality. Where someone stands on that dodgy subject alone tells me a lot how a person's system would sound. I don't have to know anything else. I don't have to see photos of his system or see a list of his system. Does that surprise you?
Edits: 07/22/22
"I can't help wondering what Jay's position is on wire and cable directionality. Where someone stands on that dodgy subject alone tells me a lot how a person's system would sound."
The cables he uses have "filter networks" on them.... I guess they go in a certain direction, but don't know for sure.
"I don't have to know anything else. I don't have to see photos of his system or see a list of his system. Does that surprise you?"
You can see pretty clearly what he has in the videos..... (If you watch enough of his recent videos, you'll know exactly what he has.) The components he has cost more than my house several times over...... I do think his approach to system building is somewhat strange, but who am I to judge?
Most cables designed for audio have directional designators, and I generally follow them. I do think it makes a difference, but I'm not sure if I could pass an ABX test.....
I am referring to the "controversial idea" that all wire and therefore all cables and fuses are "directional." What that means is that, generally speaking, setting aside cables with filter networks and shielding, all (rpt all) wires, cables, interconnects, digital cables, fuses, HDMI cables, etc. sound better in one direction vs the other direction. This is true for stranded and solid core cables. I am referring here to wires and cables and fuses in AC circuits (I.e., audio circuits) as well as DC circuits. Since this idea of wire directionality is controversial I like to use it to gauge peoples' audio IQ, as it were.
Edits: 07/22/22
you've spilled more ink just talking about!
No one cares. :)
Besides, I heard Magicos suck. :-)
"you have to engage Alon Wolf of Magico Loudspeakers and ask him why he only provides ONE pair of terminals on the back of his speakers."
That's a design decision..... But I personally don't think any design decision "validates" or "invalidates" a belief about a given practice in audio. One designer may think bi-wiring is an essential option, another may think it is totally unnecessary.
Vive la difference!
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: