 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
174.194.204.36
Supposed measurements below show maximum DRs in the 8-16dr range or so. Would this not mean something along the line of there only being a 16 db difference between near dead silence or tape hiss and a loud passage. Cars are 70-80, buses 80-95 etc. The numbers below make no sense to me. What am I missing other than clicks, pops and tape hiss?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Follow Ups:
The numbers you see are the difference between the recordings average level and the loudest passages in dB.
The numbers on the database represent Average, minimum and maximum values for the recording, in that order. But they aren't decibels, maybe they are dimensionless, it's perhaps just a convenient way to shown relative dynamic range. Perhaps the best way to interpret the results is by color. Recordings that are all red or mostly red would presumably sound very compromised Dynamic Range wise. Colors all green or mostly green indicate the recoding should sound pretty good Dynamic Range wise. Relatively speaking. I am not saying other characteristics of sound other than DR are not important too.
Edits: 04/25/21
"I am not saying other characteristics of sound other than DR are not important too." A geoff kait quote. Well geoff my man, maybe you could 'splain the other great attributes of sound quality of the cassette other than DR? Thanks in advance.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 04/26/21
For cassettes I hear instruments and full Tuttis are fuller and more real, there is more real air as opposed to fake air of CDs, voices are human-sounding as opposed to synthetic or robotic sounding, the sound is fuller and richer overall, closer to what one imagines the master tape would sound like. Generally speaking, especially if untreated, CDs played on untreated systems sound rolled off, all messed up and unnatural in the high frequencies, boomy, compressed, two dimensional, irritating, boring, thin, tinny, electronic, metallic, congealed, and like papier-mâché.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Give my condolences to your liver.
Why?? My liver is not compressed, nor does it wow, flutter and hiss.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Mr. Smarty Pants, didn't you know tape hiss is almost always inaudible? If tape hiss is such a big deal why can't you hear it on CDs? Go find someone else to troll.
Edits: 04/29/21 04/29/21
Dolby noise-reduction system - Wiki"Dolby noise reduction is a form of dynamic pre-emphasis employed during recording, plus a form of dynamic de-emphasis used during playback, that work in tandem to improve the signal-to-noise ratio. The signal-to-noise ratio is simply how large the music signal is compared to the low level of tape noise with no signal." Chalk up another gem from geoff that adds to his extraordinary cred.
Improve the s/n and destroy the s. Just great. Me loves some cassettes.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Edits: 04/30/21
Thanks for helping support my point. It's always gratifying when the other side caves.
'CDs played on untreated systems sound ... '
just re-set the expectation bias function ... that clears things right up
most units can be re-set by simply unplugging them and then back in again
try it and don't let us know
be well,
This place is crawling with comedians.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
You're pimping me,mright? You go first.
Don't understand the comment geoff. It certainly doesn't seem to address the excellent audio qualities of cassette, other than superior dynamic range that is.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
You need to get out more is my impression.
Don't we all. No live music for over a year. Me likes the wow and flutter free stuff.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
All media has some pluses and minuses. I don't like all the missing information and the flatline compression and distortion in CDs. But if it doesn't bother you more power to you. :-)
Edits: 04/27/21
The DR rating is a per-track measure of peak loudness minus average loudness in decibels. The min DR rating for the album is the DR rating of the lowest scoring track. The max DR rating is of the highest scoring track. And the average is the average of the DR ratings of the individual tracks.
The DR rating is kind of a simplistic measurement. A better dynamic range measure is R128, which is the difference between the 95th percentile loudness and 5th percentile loudness, also measured in decibels.
Nt
I go by wow and flutter. Yep, cassettes are the best!
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
You like hiss though, right?
... tape hiss.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
I've heard a number of systems that are capable of reproducing records with good dynamic range much better than more compressed recordings. I think it's something related to duty cycle - they just can't keep it up without the rest more dynamic records provide. It begins to sound like the amp is being forced to work into a speaker with a too low impedance. Of course, identifying the recording as compressed, it enough to justify the poor performance for most who own systems like this - and if dynamic range is a requirement for their listening it's a fine compromise. Yet that same compressed recording can be really satisfying (ie. not sound bad) on other systems.
Edits: 04/25/21 04/25/21
. . . between the quietest level (not the average level) and the loudest level?
This site is a weapon in the Loudness Wars and they were/are all about increasing the average level so it is closer to the technical maximum of 0dBfs.
The minimum level remains -96dBfs as prescribed by the compact disc medium.
It is of no interest in the Loudness Wars, only the difference between average and maximum is.
Dynamic range, as it refers to an actual recording, should refer to the difference between the softest level and loudest level on that recording. Apart from this, the medium itself can have a maximum dynamic range - this is separate from the dynamic ranges of particular recordings played on that medium. I understand what the Loudness Wars were all about - although, as a classical listener, I've never had to worry about it. To say that DR is the difference between average level and maximum level is just a misuse of the term IMHO.
The EBU R128 definition of dynamic range is 95th percentile loudness minus 5th percentile loudness. It's trying to measure the difference between loudest and quietest passages by ignoring instantaneous peaks and moments of silence.
I think the R128 measure makes more sense for classical music. And the DR rating makes more sense for rock.
If you don't measure it from average to peak the dynamic range will always be around 96dB because the quietest passage is always silence and the loudest 0dBfs rendering the entire effort meaningless.
what the dynamic range of the music is on the recording. How could measuring the "average" tell you anything about the quietest sections of the music? Without measuring the quietest sections how could you get the real DR of the music on whatever medium you're listening to?
Nobody adjusts their volume so they can hear silence. You adjust volume so you can hear the quietest sections and the loudest sections aren't so loud that they blast you outta your listening room.
That is THE definition of DR as far as I read. So these numbers may mean bupkis as far as this discussion goes. One of geoff's main contention is not really about technology but what was done or not done to cassettes. I'd like to see the real DR stats pre "loudness wars" of cassettes vs CDs. Either way, cassettes still suck unless you like hiss. I didn't see any cassettes on this list?? That recording "engineers") (aka, spawn of the devil) f up a yugggg number of recordings is pretty much a given.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
You are making the common mistake of confusing recording engineers with mix and mastering engineers.
I know a number of recording engineers who were almost in tears after hearing how mix and mastering engineers crushed all life out of their carefully crafted recordings.
Good point b.l.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
You didn't see any cassettes on this list?. That's gold, Jerry, gold!!
Edits: 04/25/21
No, I didn't see any cassettes on the list. I did not look at every one, maybe 5 or 6.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Did you see any 78s on the list?
Please point out some cassettes on the list. Not that it makes any difference as cassettes still suck.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Huh? I didn't say there were cassettes on the list. Why would there be cassettes on the list? Maybe you need to eat more fish.
"You didn't see any cassettes on this list?. That's gold, Jerry, gold!!"
You can call me Ray, you can call me Jay, you can call me Johnson but never call me Jerry.
Long live the cassette.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Just to follow up, cassettes don't appear on the list for the same reason 78s and 45s and 8 tracks don't. It's because the raison d'etre for the database is to show how overly aggressive dynamic range compression affected the media that are still around in 2021. As I pointed out earlier cassettes predate Loudness Wars. So they are not included. It's also why the dynamic range of cassettes is greater than many LPs and CDs, you know, the ones that got overly compressed. The production of cassettes terminated about the time the Loudness Wars started. At their peak cassette technology was very advanced in terms of tape quality and build quality as well as how they were mastered, often digitally during 90s. And they sound fabulous, none of the digitalis we associate with CDs. And dynamic as all get out!
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Here you go. You can also go to the link for the Stereophile article.
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Those are the words of the Stereophile reviewer that you posted. Not the database developer.
Edits: 04/25/21
Yes. It's a real interesting set up, but I can't find any further info on the site itself. I did respond to Todd K's observation, but haven't had a chance to dig further.
If you have developer intent/info, that would be great if you could share!
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
The "best" measurements go well above "20"........
I tried the sort filter and see that as well.So I took a closer look at the site and upload instructions.
Looks pretty cool actually.
Apparently you can contribute by adding/removing your own data using their criteria. Thereby increasing the database.
I haven't tried it, but likely some anomalies or abuse has crept in. That's too (edit) bad.
Now I understand the reason for the notice on the site's home page.
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Edits: 04/25/21
The numbers are not dBs. Hel-loo!
Ok geoff. I'm a wonderin', since in the first 2 lists I didn't see any direct comparison between the exact same recording on cd, vinyl and or cassette tape maybe you can point them out to me since I really don't want to go through the whole list. The notion that different music has different max DR is somewhat less than profound. Thanks bro.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
YT
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Nt
nt
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Nt
Enter the artist and the album name at top fight of page. For example Led Zeppelin or Rolling Stones, somebody who had a lot of albums, lots of reissues and lots of media types. The various media types and year of issue and Dynamic Range, Average, Min, Max for a particular album. LP, CD, hi res, SHM-CD, whatever.Let's look at Rolling Stones, Emotional Rescue as an example. It's plain as the nose on your face that later issues of this CD are very very compressed compared to the original CDs, you know, before the advent of the Loudness Wars.
Edits: 04/25/21 04/25/21 04/25/21
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]