|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
96.232.37.91
No matter how "future proof" some DACs are purportedly designed, digital technology marches inexorably and rapidly forward, with shiny new "breakthroughs" being heralded quite regularly. (See anything by Robert Harley.)
Creating the inescapable impression that any DAC--even a pricey, future proof one--has approximately the long-term viability (and investment value) of my current MacBook Pro laptop.
Which is to say: good luck trying to sell the thing when the next breakthrough arrives.
Follow Ups:
In 2006 I bought a Lite Audio DAC-60, an R2R type using PCM-1704 Chips. Every once in a while I compare it to something new. Nothing sounds quite like it. It just has such a richness to the midrange and real depth to the soundstage. Best of all, it doesn't really remind me what I'm listening to is digital.
Personality counts for something.
Technology remains technology.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
In the studio crowd, the long out-of-production UAD 2192 converters command prices well above their last retail price. The reason? They still sound better than many current converters, including some current UAD boxes.
And the little company Metric Halo that invented the audio interface (i.e. DAC/ADC plus line- or mic-level inputs) put out user-installable upgrades to their new architecture. The converter chips don't change, but with the switch from Firewire to USB their capacity has increased by orders of magnitude. All their interfaces how have internal routers for 4,092 x 4,092 channels across an unlimited number of daisy-chained interfaces. The cost of chaining multiple interfaces via TCP/IP is one sample per linked box. So my ten-year-old ULN2 gets a new lease on life, and sounds better than ever. Every piece of hardware they've ever made can be upgraded. They include extremely powerful DAW software that can run either stand-alone or as inserts in Pro Tools/Logic/etc. The new architecture also supports plug-in cards to support every I/O standard out there, like AES, MIDI, SPDIF, ADAT, MADI, etc. The pic shows a stack of their 8-channel model with all the various I/O options (right side of the rear.)
They also did something else unusual. They put out a Beta version of their software for the upgraded boxes, and set up a thread on the Gearslutz computers forum to communicate with customers who tried it. That thread now has over 3,000 entries and has been an outstanding guide to the new software that included extensive customer input as they tweaked the new software and included customer requests. Many studios have been running the beta version in their daily production, as it's been extremely stable. They are also the one of two audio companies where it's easy to get hold of a principal to help with any problems. (The other is Manley.) Very cool.
WW
"They got a handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged." Alberta Hunter
Edits: 03/20/21
".....digital technology marches inexorably and rapidly forward, with shiny new "breakthroughs" being heralded quite regularly."The "breakthroughs" live mostly in the whiz-bang DAC chip of the month, marketing hype, magazine reviews, and in the brainwashed minds of some audiophiles. But this doesn't necessarily translate into breakthroughs in the resulting sound quality.
"Creating the inescapable impression that any DAC--even a pricey, future proof one--has approximately the long-term viability (and investment value) of my current MacBook Pro laptop."
Neither are "investments" but have you compared the market value of your used MacBook to a comparable used Windows laptop? Most Windows laptops are consumables to be disposed of after a couple short years.
As for DACs today , I wouldn't pay more than about $2000 with the sweet spot being about 1/2 that, maybe less.... And much much less for a network streamer. When Bryston uses a $50 Raspberry Pi board at the heart of their well reviewed $1500 BDP-Pi streamer, you know we're all being bamboozled by manufacturers peddling mega buck streamers in pretty casework.
Edits: 03/20/21 03/20/21
My current "backup" system is a wheezing old Dell Latitude 2120 (~ 10 years old by BIOS date), bought years ago for <$200, an excellent deal at the time (it was a closeout from Spanish market). Came with "Windows 7 Starter" which I don't think even was offered in the States. That was ok because I was studying Spanish at the University at that time. It has an Intel Atom, 2 GB RAM and a real spinning hard drive. It barely runs Win10. Yet it's adequate to run J River Media Center with only the occasional hiccup. It also serves as my emergency fallback PC (for personal and financial data).
I second what you say, or perhaps I'm putting words in your mouth: a lot of the claimed "sound quality" of the DAC, or indeed any electronics, is mostly wishful thinking that can't withstand the simplest of blind testing. My downstream electronics would appall you. I'll just say the brand name rhymes with "Derringer." 😃 I've never heard any identifiable difference in electronics that wasn't a noise floor issue. This isn't to say that differences will never exist, but it IS asserting that most claimed distinctions are adequately xplained by the ego, bragging rights and is otherwise hallucinogenic. By all means, spend $2000 on the latest audiophile approved item; when you sell it for a fraction of its price a few years later, I might be interested to buy it.
My DACs are 'relatively' modern.
Modern enough.
all the best,
mrh
Linux just runs faster and smoother and is a great way to repurpose older bloated Windows machines. Linux seems to be light footed and swift whereas Windows is like trying to run with concrete boots.
Of course I'm biased though. There is no Linux desktop, user interface, or suite of applications that can compete with Windows or macOS for the average consumer, i.e. non-techie.
IMHO Linux on the desktop is for techies but Linux truly shines in the data center.
The manufacturers and magazines want us to hop on the DAC chip of the month bandwagon but unless the DAC designer knows what he's doing in the analog stage, that whiz-bang DAC chip of the month don't mean squat ;-)
Unfortunately that's the sad case with many new DACs. They have the latest most expensive chip but they still sound like crap. I'll take an older modestly priced DAC where the designer knew how to get the highest quality sound quality out of the finished product.
Similarly, the highest bit rate PCM or super-res DSD means nothing if the original recording and mastering were poor. No DAC will fix that.
DACs today are generally better than in the 1990s..... But my favorite DACs are still from the 1990s......
I think the radio-frequency interference from higher bit rates of newer DACs have in large part negated the advances in filter algorithms of recent time......
I do think half the problem is that today's designers have had too much "overprocessed" music to deal with in evaluating their products, and fewer designers actually have access to good analog recordings and live music as a reference.....
nt
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
When CDs first came out, a lot of people thought they sounded better than vinyl..... But around 1995, the sentiment began to change...... And in spite of "advances" in digital audio technology over the past 20 years, a lot of people still prefer vinyl.... Could be a telltale sign that digital audio playback from a sonic perspective has been "running in place" a lot more than a lot of us would like to believe.......
This is in spite of the "knowledge base" in the setup of vinyl rigs having diminished relative to when the CD took over in the early 1980s..... And although there has been a huge comeback with vinyl playback, I think the percentage of "properly set-up rigs" has gone down... (A lot of vinyl newcomers don't seem to care much about setup that can make a good rig sound great. Although I do think modern cartridges are more "forgiving" to alignment aberrations, relative to their older counterparts.) I believe the "perfection" aspect of audiophile-dom has taken a hit because a lot of recent music, even the better stuff, doesn't seem to command the utmost fidelity like it did prior to the digital age.
Don't spend more than $1K. Buy used or chinese
I still have, actually, two, in use. 5.1 has always been enough for me.
I am using an early 2011 Macbook Pro. My first DAC was a Scott Nixon (sounded very analog), replaced when it died by a Schiit upgradeable Bifrost (original). I am enjoying them not investing in them. So far, I think I have gotten good DAC value.
Gsquared
there quickly comes a "good-enough" time. My oldest DAC used in the garage system is a ten year old design and supports the highest resolution recordings I have at 192/24.
Lack of newer formats hasn't limited my access to the music I want.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: