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In Reply to: RE: Stabilant 22 deteriorating? posted by Todd Krieger on February 09, 2021 at 00:14:09
....the "report" was about Tweek. Not Stabilant.
Listen to the people who have actual experience, like me....like the others in this thread. You used, and had a bad experience with Tweek. Not Stabilant.
The only thing I would suggest is I get sent a tiny sample of Stabilant 22, and I would test it on an obsolete cable and piece of gear (I'd run the piece and have music signal coming to it via the cable), and find out whether or not it has the same issues as Sumiko's "Tweek" product.......
Todd....you are welcome to use my bottle. Time-tested, and no cost to you.
Wasn't Sumiko's Tweek actually Stabilant? Are you implying that people who reported problems with Tweek bought a fake product? Or perhaps that Sumiko was dishonest regarding their use of Stabilant?
Stabilant 22 was intended to be diluted with four parts 99.9 percent alcohol...... I suspect that the Tweek product may have been made with 70 percent alcohol, in which the water component may have caused the oxidation.
Wouldn't the water evaporate like the alcohol? If the water didn't evaporate the electrical connection would be a very poor conductor.
Alcohol evaporates at a faster rate than water..... When trapped in connector contacts, the water has no place to evaporate.
Why wouldn't Sumiko obtain the already diluted Stabilant directly from the manufacturer? I.e., Stabilant 22A or Stabilant 22E. It's pretty obvious one should dilute Stabilant with a rapid-evaporating one such as Freon or pure alcohol.
From Applications Note,
"In what forms is Stabilant available?
The Stabilants are available in several forms. As a concentrate (Stabilant 22), an isopropyl alcohol-diluted form (Stabilant 22A), and an ethyl alcohol diluted form (Stabilant 22E). For example, a given size container of Stabilant 22A will cost about one-fifth the amount of a container of Stabilant 22 as it contains only one-fifth the amount of the concentrate. Another form of packaging is available. Stabilant 22S packages the concentrate such that it occupies one-fifth the volume of an otherwise empty container. This allows the end-user to add his own diluent, and thus saves the added costs of shipping the diluent (e.g.: isopropyl alcohol), as well as allowing the end-user to use an alternate diluent such as one of the Freon-based solvents.
In addition a 0.5 ml vial of Stabilant 22A is available for manufacturers to include with plug-in circuit boards."
I cannot speak for Sumiko.... I did search the web for the composition of the Tweek product itself, but couldn't find anything.
I will say that the Stabilant 22 concentrate, diluted with 99% alcohol per instructions, is a less expensive option than the Stabilant 22A pre-mixed with the alcohol. (The alcohol itself is inexpensive..... The caveat is that 99 percent alcohol is very flammable. The key reason why consumer alcohol is diluted to 70 percent.) So if it were to be remarketed (like what Sumiko did with Tweek), using the concentrate form diluted with separately sourced alcohol would yield a higher profit margin.
The definitive answer to this issue would be for a chemist to take the Tweek product and the Stabilant 22A, and check the composition of each product. (It could be difficult to find the Tweek product, it has not been marketed for years.)
It would probably have been smarter if Sumiko Simply charged more for Tweek but used Stabilant 22A or 22E direct from the source, if in fact that is not what Sumiko actually did. Sumiko was a high end distributor and it doesn't make sense they would try to cheapen a product to make a few cents. There are too many variables in this jig saw puzzle. As I intimated previously almost all contact enhancers are controversial.
NOTE: Cleaning all contacts including all non-audio contacts in the house with 92% isopropyl alcohol would be a big step forward.
It's highly likely that the Tweek users purchased a fake or knock-off. There is no way to know. But there is direct testimony and experience backing the use of Stabilant, and that use over many years has been exemplary. Ergo, the two products are NOT one and the same.
If you want to make a small fortune in audio start off with a big fortune. I suspect if someone wanted to make some money he would not (rpt not) choose an obscure audiophile tweak like Tweek to fake. There aren't enough potential customers and the cost per bottle is too low.
This happens a lot for audiophile tweaks. The streets are littered with examples of tweaks that got very mixed results. To whit, the Tice Clock, CD liquids, silver based contact enhancers, the Intelligent Chip, audiophile fuses, the ERS anti RFI cloth, crystals, Silver Rainbow Foil, wire directionality, Cables, VPI Brick, Schumann Frequency Generator. Both sides swear on a stack of bibles their testimony is the truth. To say all those who had negative results with an audiophile tweak must have bought a fake product appears to be an illogical argument.
Edits: 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21 02/10/21
I first started using Stabilant 22 when I bought my first set of High
Fidelity cables some 6 or 7 years ago as they came treated with it.
IMHO Rick Schultz is a pretty smart dude and wouldn't be shipping
his product with something that would promote oxidation or worse.
He now ships his cables with a small container of 22 and brush.
At that time I did my research and found that the U.S. military,
Boeing and many other corporations use 22 with great results.
I have used 22 for 6 years or so with NO ISSUES and this is
specifically why I use it. It is apply, set and forget - completely!
Will it completely elevate your listening experience as a lot of
the other coatings, pastes and enhancers have claimed, NO, but it
will ensure proper electrical connections without ever having to
twist or push/pull from time to time and that itself makes for the
best tweak ( and cheapest ) that I have ever found.
The military and Boeing are actually not good examples. Nor would NASA be. Nice name dropping however. I was one of the very first to buy Sumiko Tweek all those years ago so it's highly improbably that I bought a fake. And yes, it turned a greenish black.
....and again, everything else you stated is irrelevant.
I got some Stabilant 22 and 99.9 percent isopropyl alcohol..... Made the 22A solution per the recommended 4:1 ratio..... (The resultant fluid seems somewhat "thinner" than the Sumiko Tweek product I once tried.) Applied it to some RF adapters I use for digital matching terminations..... I don't know if it's "placebo effect", but at first listen, it seems to improve the sound of my CD sources......
I applied the product to the adapters, the worst case scenario is the oxidation taking out the inexpensive adapters (I would just replace them)..... (If the sound of the CD sources goes downhill over the next six months, that would be a sign of oxidation.) I will of course monitor things over the next few months, and hopefully the next few years.
I apply mine 'straight' without dilution, with the tiny brush supplied with the product. The application is easy, and the Stabilant viscous....no running. It stays put on whatever surface its applied.
Applying it straight seems to have a more powerful sonic effect (I believe) due to its viscosity....it's filling in more micro-imperfections in the metal surfaces and coats all the strands in twisted, stranded wire.
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