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Vinyl sales exceed CD sales
Whether or not you can observe a thing depends upon the theory you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed. - Albert Einstein
As a hobbies and interest lesson - I will show them my hobby which includes vinyl and music listening.
As my review of the new Audio Note TT3 turntable notes I have mostly remained somewhat on the periphery of vinyl largely due to the fact that the sorts of record players that elevated the game over digital cost too much to my ear to deal with the pain in the ass of it all. The TT3/Arm3(V2)/IQ3 changed that pretty much on day one when I brought it home May 20th. I have practically kept Elusive Disc and Music Direct in business for the last few months as half a dozen shipments have made their way to me along with the LPs sold in various stores here in Hong Kong.
New LPs come with the digital download card as well so you have the portable copy as well. One LP also provided the CD version. Hey you can have it all these days.
The Japanese market will keep the physical formats alive and the youth seem to be into it as illustrated in this short video. Virtually all the modern artists release on vinyl so if the youngsters were not buying it they would not be released - I doubt too many 50+ year olds are listening to Halsey, Billie Eilish, Lewis Capaldi. And the massive umber of jazz and classical re-releases illustrates that some old geezers are still buying it up.
I never though I would see a time when vinyl outsold CD. Even if it is more about CD dying than LP rising the point is LP is surviving and continuing to sell. I am thankful for that.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Modern music isn't worth buying.
People stream for background music.
The nostalgia gang and hipsters buy vinyl.
CD's deserve better than this but there it is. No new music worth buying means lower CD sales.
If you're a classical fan there are incredible deals at Amazon - search on 'classical cd box set'.
'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain
"Modern music isn't worth buying."
I stream for all Music... Most All Music is Available.
Not sure what point you're trying to make.
I'm in the middle of you two -- I am perfectly happy with the sound quality of streamed music for critical listening, but if I really, really fall in love with an album, I do like adding it to my local collection. One still has to deal with the issue of copyright and the album here and there that disappears from the streaming library overnight.
Y'all, I still do not understand much about the allure of vinyl. The high end not being cut off as if with a knife might have something to do with it, but usually there are imperfections.
I am not sure how many people can actually hear it but nothing really impedes the high end like on a CD.
Now if your cart and stylus are flat to within +/-2dB to 20KHz, there is of course some response above that. In a CD everything above 10KHz, by necessity is only a sine wave because of the filters. If you use the most advanced, and I mean like NASA, filters the best you can do is 22.05KHz. Remember CD4 records and carts that went up to 35KHZ or so ? The 2X7, the Shibata.
So general logic will tell many people that your ears can't tell the difference above 10KHZ because you can't hear the harmonics.
Well maybe it is time to challenge that. Find a guy with really good ears and get a function generator. See if he can tell the difference between a 15KHz sine wave and a square wave. Despite sidestepping my science, I believe some people can. You know even with the limitations of human hearing, which is not cut off razor sharp and I think some people can hear it.
So to get that some people might be willing to put up with other imperfection. Forget TT rumble, you know that vinyl sound you get sometimes.
You know, some people can see a wider range of light than most. Actually UV is what I read about. One friend of mine, even though in later life he needs glasses, can see in the dark. Seriously, we were walking around in the stix and he had no problem, I was totally blind.
So you cannot take as gospel that you hear from Hz to Hz or that you can see from X angstroms to X angstroms. Different people are different.
The next best reproduction you can get is probably reel to reel at at least 15 IPS. Those usually have about a 100KHz bias for recording which means the filter can let out more than on a CD.
So I tried to bring science into this hope I didn't bore you.
But let's ask this. Perhaps you had a hearing test. Did they test above 20KHz ? No way. Maybe what we need is hearing test for people with good hearing, find out just how good. Seriously, any hearing test ever even throw you 22KHz ? I kinda doubt it. Those tests are for hearing deficiencies, not hearing efficiencies.
Now seriously, some here have a function generator. Seriously set that thing to 10KHZ and find out if you can hear the difference between sine and square. You will have to apply gain correction to bring the RMS level equal. That might be easier said than done but I might come up with something.
"So I tried to bring science into this hope I didn't bore you."
No, but you confused me (which isn't that hard to do).
Despite your opening sentence, it almost sounds as if you are making the case for vynyl being superior to compact disc?
JURB inferred that vinyl sounds better than reel to reel:
"The next best reproduction you can get is probably reel to reel at at least 15 IPS."
Not sure what reel to reel JURB is referencing but the reel to reel rigs I've heard lately are so far ahead of vinyl it isn't even close. Unfortunately the tapes are 2 or 300 bucks.
There are a lot of variables in play when it comes to comparing reel-to-reel and vinyl recordings, so it is impossible to say one always wins over another.
First, in the pre-digital age, the vast majority of recordings were made on studio open reel machines. These usually, but not always, ran at 15 ips and may or may not have been multi-track. If 4 or 8 track, then the tape had to be mixed down to 2 channel stereo before it could be turned into a commercial release. Every time a tape got transferred, there was a generational loss of high frequencies and increased noise. Dolby helped a bit with the hiss issue, but generational issues were still present.
Even in the original studio recordings, sound quality varied all over the place depending on the studio's equipment, the engineer and the goals of the artist and producer. But, the same thing is true today even with digital -- one can find plenty of modern recordings that are poor.
Conversion to vinyl added a whole 'nother layer of complications. Longer recordings had to have reduced volume and/or reduced bass to fit on a 12" LP. This hurt the signal-to-noise ratio and made any clicks and pops on the recording stand out more, as well as often hurt the bass quality. The number of pressings made from each master and the purity of the vinyl used was also an issue. Some labels were notorious for poor quality control in this area.
These days, even with LPs, most of the studio recordings are done in digital. This gets rid of the generation loss issue during mix-down and also helps with the S/N issue. But, if transferred to vinyl, one still has the classic limitations present when mastering the recording for LP pressing.
I am still terminally confused.
....how there are many collections of vinyl living in used record stores all over the map from people who either never played them or were well kept and played only a few times on good rigs.
And searching through vinyl bins filled with all kinds of good stuff is like looking for gold and hidden treasures. Never mind the badly stored or played crap. A knowledgeable person can spot the crap. There are some people who can examine grooves and tell you what song or work it is.
And after a few hours of infectious inspection take home 100 bucks of numerous things (maybe 30) with liner notes you can read, foldout album covers, artwork, and even some with pull outs. Some are still sealed or imports never obtainable!
And just think of all that exercise you are getting in the search instead of sitting on fat asses with a smart phone or computer, and streaming things and playing with buttons. People that are interested in LEGACY and what you might leave behind to children or donate to a worthy cause.
And newbee's looking for info and going to places like Audio Asylum, asking questions or wondering why your Uncle's TT with a new $400 cartridge sounds as good or better than CD's.
Yes, it's a minority thing at best now. Just take them all and burn them in a giant bonfire and say goodbye to history. Oooops, that's dangerous so maybe just set outside on the curb or throw them out. Who needs them anyway. It's all such a pain in the ass.
"Bass is the place..the rest is filigree and lace" Doug Sax
CDs are getting cheap and compared to vinyl, fewer are bad. It's not a bad deal for some of of us.
"Bass is the place..the rest is filigree and lace" Doug Sax
I just don't see the point. Buy a CD on an LP so you can play it with a turntable of possibly dubious quality that is poorly setup so you can ruin the LP.
You mean you don't?
From the Vinyl Engine (15 October 2009):
"How do i wet-play? I just spray a fine mist of water over the record surface and then play the record as always. It does not need excessive water.
Why does it work? Simply, when the groove is wet, the stylus glides the dust away instead of riding over it like a bump. The stylus is thus cleaning and playing at the same time. Plus it eliminates any static charge problem. This also means dust will not get attracted to the surface when removing the record from the platter."
Vinyl Filbert's Rule!
Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase...as true of humans as of molecules - Pardot Kynes
"Simply, when the groove is wet, the stylus glides the dust away instead of riding over it like a bump"
I read something quite contradictory.
When the stylus goes through the groove in melts it just a little and it is like ice skates. Ice is not that slippery but the pressure from the skate melts a thin layer of it which refreezes when the pressure is removed.
The premise of what the guy was saying is that because the water prevents the melting the stylus rips off the sharp corners of the groove modulation and causes distortion on subsequent plays.
True or not ? I don't know. Next time I go to the surplus place I can ask if they got any electron microscopes.
I got got one problem with that place. They start with a jacked up prices and then keep on reducing it. So it is advantageous to wait and let them sit on it. However there is a risk someone else will but it out from under you.
But I really wouldn't put it past them to have an electron microscope, they got dialysis machines. I thought when those got replaced they got sent to foreign countries.
That place is one of our favorite haunts, but is not all that close by, and you don't want to take a little shitcan car there, take at least an SUV, a pickup truck would be even better.
When you walk in your nostrils are greeted by the smell of oil. Many units to buy you put a tag on it and go see a rep. they might have a towmotor come and load you. They have transformers the size of a kitchen stove, think of that for an amp. Simple, just call the electric company and order 440 three phase and you're rocking the hood. And the next county.
Yeah, one time the cops came for loud music, FROM A DIFFERENT CITY ! I shit you not. I lived in rocky River and Lakewood is right next to it and their cops came. I laughed, they got no jurisdiction.
Anyway, to anyone by the way, does anyone have an opinion bout LASER based record playing ? I have sen a few articles on that and there are drawbacks. I think really if you want that you get the dust out of the room, like with one of those air cleaners or two. Then play it the first time for transcription purposes. The main problem is apparently when it comes to a piece of dust or whatever, NOTHING happens to it. The dust is reproduced flawlessly.
I'd love to get my hands on some.
I have everything ripped to disk for serving up my music. And for what I don't have on disk, there's always my Tidal and Qobuz subscriptions for hi-res streaming. All of it controlled from my finger tips on my iPad remote control.
As my 40+ year old copy had a few scratches in it!
Stones are good but to constantly listen to their same songs for 50
Undercover up, right now
"E Burres Stigano?"
This is not surprising. You can download CD quality sound all day long.
If you get it i FLAC there you have it, and I think there are even better formats now. (they say but let's see it) Evne a WAV file is uncompressed, and with the same sample rates n shit as a CD, being uncompressed it is already better. A long time ago 176KB/sec was a problem, today it is not with TB drives.
But you can't download LP quality. Ever. NEVER been digitized. No download can beat that.
than to the glory of vinyl.
That one can STILL spend nearly $10K on a silver disk spinner is almost as amazing as spending an equal sum on a phono 'cartridge'.
Well some of us have a lot of legacy silver discs. I doubt if too many young people are buying any sort of CD spinner though.
Of course these sales figures are revenue not unit based. So as CDs are cheaper than LPs, CDs still outsell vinyl in units. The margin between the media has reduced and CD is now a shadow of its glorious past as you say.
The real story is, and has been for the past few years, the replacement of consumer owned music collections by streaming services. In that context vinyl really isn't doing all that well and remains of minority interest.
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
I'm sure LOTS of people have large CD collections which they will continue to enjoy, and these people will continue to need CD players as they are unwilling to embark on the arduous task of copying their collections to a "server" -- much less replace (repurchase) everything as downloads. The market may have shrunk, but will not go away for a while.
Despite the limitations of the medium, properly engineered CDs CAN sound quite good on a good player. Plus which, they don't degrade or wear out with repeated use.
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