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In Reply to: RE: Artemus: " I am an ENTP on MB..." posted by pbarach on July 14, 2017 at 14:10:30
are we all the same? I'm surprised that so many have got hung up on MB. The question was if/how discordant melodies might effect different personality types. How you define those types is an altogether different question. The same for how you define discordant melodic structures. As has been pointed out,different cultures have different factors in how they define beauty and discord in music . If you believe that all personalities are the same then I would invite you to my house where you will find my wife who is an introvert and I an extrovert. I suppose you consider the 2 different.
You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?
which show that defining personality types is very, very difficult, pass right over your head.
Because, you, despite all that, want it to be possible?
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
...is the standard for defining personality types.
At least a good place to start.
mkmuller wrote that the Myers-Briggs is "the standard for defining personality types." Whose standard? It's rarely used in research because it's psychometrically a poor instrument (see one of my earlier posts in this thread for a Wikipedia link that contains references to the scientific literature). Essentially, the "types" are neither temporally stable nor predictive of real-world behavior. For these reasons, it isn't used except in "pop psych" applications.
Actually, the most generally accepted theory of personality "types" is the Five Factor model, which also has methodological problems.
...throughout the corporate world, particularly in sales training.
It helps salespeople understand their personality type and how to relate to different types they are trying to sell to.
Also in understanding the other personality types internally you interface with.
and, becoming a senior NCO of infantry, I've run across personality testing a good deal.
I've been give M-B tests, being told I would learn about me from it, and lost count after 10 instances.
It's not just because I was bothered by its assumptions from the outset.
E.g. "Do you prefer working with creative people or logical people?" WHATTTTT!!!??? was my reaction.
Unless creative people means marketers, advertising folks and such, I am forced to go with the mid point of the scale.
Do you remember the wonderfully cruel and very funny episode in 'Hitchiker's Guide' about such folks, landed on a fertile planet like earth?
Why, Timbo? Because truly creative people solve or improve real complex problems, and need a good deal of logic and questioning to do so. Meeting sales targets doesn't fit at all, IMO.
IME & O MB's predictive ability is quite poor and it didn't help me in dealing with people.
I learn a great deal more from feedback given honestly, if it's by people with sufficient maturity to realise that I do, and will, think things through. Because I respect and value, them.
There are IME lots of people who achieve, and get things done, but I see no category of types most likely to do it.
The factors that matter most, say in getting things done, or changing an organisation's vision, are values-driven 'wanna' e.g. a commitment to making a difference.
Ambition and desire for success, are not vital IMO&E, can be recognised and disliked by colleagues and potential supporters. Selling ideas for change requires courage.
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
mkuller says the MB is used "throughout the corporate world, particularly in sales training."
Again, the fact that it's used doesn't mean that it has any predictive validity. Show me research where sales people given INCORRECT MB types for themselves are rated as more persuasive than salespeople given CORRECT results of the MB indicator.
You might also consider "neurolinguistic programming," an approach to "matching" one's language and nonverbal behavior to a customer that was supposed to improve sales results--but no research ever showed it worked. It was widely used 25 years ago.
...I have no dog in this game so I'm not interested in an arguement.
What is reliability? Reliability is how consistently a test measures what it attempts to measure. Why is consistency important? Because when you measure something with an instrument two times, you want it to come out with the same answer (or close to it) both times. (This is called test-retest reliability, and it is an important measure of any kind of scientific testing.
Personality is qualitative and therefore difficult to measure, so psychological instruments cannot have the same consistency you would expect from, say, a ruler. But there are generally accepted standards for psychological instruments. The MBTI® instrument meets and exceeds the standards for psychological instruments in terms of its reliability.
Validity is the degree to which an instrument measures what it intends to measure, and the degree to which the "thing" that the instrument measures has meaning.
Why is this important? If personality type is real (or rather, if it reflects the real world with accuracy), then we should be able to use MBTI type to understand and predict people's behavior to some degree. Type should help us differentiate the values, attitudes, and behaviors of different people.
Many studies over the years have proven the validity of the MBTI instrument in three categories: (1) the validity of the four separate preference scales; (2) the validity of the four preference pairs as dichotomies; and (3) the validity of whole types or particular combinations of preferences. Many of these studies are discussed in the MBTI® Manual (published by CPP)."
Back in the day when MB was new, a number of us took the test and to a person, we were flat-out amazed at how "accurate" it appeared to be. Identified me as an INTP and yeah I couldn't argue with the descriptors. I found it fascinating.
"A broken clock is 100% accurate twice a day."
In other words, statistically, the MB "types" don't hold up as a predictor of current behavior when you look at group data, but they may be accurate for some people.
Another example, I'm quite certain that tossing a coin 1000 times will yield about 500 heads and 500 tails, but I will only be right 50% of the time about each individual toss.
Since this is an audio board, I won't post anymore about MB. But the same statistical issues apply when considering how accurately people can different 24/96 from DSD audio ;)
As to how accurately people can different (sic) 24/96 from DSD audio, well, I wouldn't trust what you have to say about that either.
Artemus wrote: "Then I thought about how this might effect another personality type. I am an ENTP on MB and DC on the DiSC profiles. Thus my question about how certain melodic structures may effect different personalities."
Once I posted some information about the uselessness of the MB types, Artemus then posted:
"Do you believe different people have different personalities? Or.are we all the same? I'm surprised that so many have got hung up on MB. The question was if/how discordant melodies might effect different personality types. How you define those types is an altogether different question. "
You asked if there was a study. What kind of study did were you thinking of? I assumed you were thinking of some kind of scientific study, meaning there was a use of the scientific method to answer the interesting question you asked. You were the one that brought up the MB--which could be one way to define the types whose responses to discordant melodies would be studied. I just said that per psychometric data, the MB was not a good way to define those types.
If there's going to be any sort of study of how different groups respond to something, you'll need a way to define those groups carefully, or the results will be "garbage in, garbage out."
Artemus, I have the impression that you got impatient with the attempt to bring a bit of science into what is potentially an interesting question.
I am not willing to get into an argument about whether psychology is a science--it's a complex question that involves defining what science is for starters.
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