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For those who have tubes in their systems, how much would you estimate that the tubes cost you? If one has an SS system, for example, there are not really any extra expenses (except for repairs); but for tube systems, the tubes need to be replaced, or you might want to upgrade them. There is certainly a huge variation in the types of tubes, their life-span etc., but it might be interesting for those who might want to explore tubed gear further to have an idea of the "extra" expense of having such gear. thanks.
because I think that it is important to find the set of tubes that work best for your system and tastes, and then acquire a pile of them, as the availability of tubes-especially the ones you like-is uncertain down the road. Experimenting and stocking up has cost me a fair piece of change, but I think it was the right way to go as I found tubes that work for me, and for the most part they were not really expensive in the end, although the entire undertaking was not cheap.
I spend about $150 a year retubing my DAC, preamp, and hybrid amp. That's dirt cheap for what they give in return.--Jim
As others have said below, it will vary from amp to amp according to the type of tubes it uses, how hard they are driven, and depending on whether or not you get hooked on tube rolling.Bottom line is how it relates to the rest of your lifestyle. Let's say you buy an amp which ends up costing you around $200 per year on tubes, for which you receive thousands of hours of entertainment. Is that good value? How does it compare to dinner & the theatre for 2 on one occasion? How does it compare to the cost of running your car? etc.etc.
It's all relative, and if a tube amp provides relatively high levels of satisfaction for a relatively small outlay, then who's counting?
Cheers
TG
Hi CetaeleYes, tubes can cost a lot. I use a newly invented and manufactured output tube from KR Enterprises, and it is expensive. It will last a long time though. You must understand that the SET amp is very uncomplicated and inexpensive, when compared to SS gear, of similar quality.
Owning tube gear will almost require you get personally involved with the amp. It opens a new level of enjoyment [fun] for those crazy enough to jump in. Just as Mike Bates, and others say.
The music is BETTER too. All music. Good choice. $.02
Later
Dave-A
Tubes are retro and they are exotic. Tube amps do a better job of representing music. Great sounding tubes are expensive due limited supply, manufacturing, and demand. If you want to play this game then you better be prepared to pay the piper. I think it's worth it.drobo
makes a popular preamp that apparently eat tubes for lunce - replacements every 3-6 months???On the other hand, many old McIntosh, Marantz, Fisher, Scott, Sherwood classic amps were designed to sound good and have their tubes last for decades. Amps such as the new Cary/AES KT88 ZF/PP "SuperAmp" run the tubes at very consevative ratings, and those tubes should last a very long time.
Many tube fans enjoy "tube rolling" (switching tubes for variations in sound quality), which can be expensive. Others (like me) try a couple of different brands and settle down with one set.
This audio "hobby" is like other hobbies. I know people with old skis and boots who can ski circles around people who talk about and buy the latest and greatest gear each year. The hobby of audio is often as much or more about playing with the gear as listening to music for many people, just as skiing is as much about the technical aspects of the equipment for some as it is zooming down the mountain. The wide range of the Asylum forums is evidence of this, and the variations in people's interests even within the individual forums further evidence of a large number of facets to the audio hobby.
Bottom line, tubes can last a long time, and they are not all expensive. Determine for yourself how far you want to go. Lurk at the Tube Asylum and learn more if you're truly interested. As long as you're open and honest, you'll get lots of free advice - and a VERY wide range of opinions. Chosing your own path as a newbie can be frustrating, but take your time and enjoy the journey.
I purchased and sold several used SET amps and a push-pull amp over the past two years just to experience them. I bought them at a reasonable price at Audiogon.com, and sold them at about the same price a month or two later. The only real cost to me was the cost of shipping when I bought them.
Dave van Harn
Re: Erroneous Reports By Various Audioasylum Audiophiles That Audible Illusions Preamps Are Hard On TubesIn Response To Post By Dave VH - 7/26/00
One of our dealers has contacted us regarding the comment posted by you on audioasylum.com, "Audible Illusions,for example, makes a popular preamp that apparently eats tubes for lunch".
We are also informed that other audiophiles on audioasylum.com have made this same remark, that our preamplifiers are hard on tubes. We have now been requested to respond.
Be advised that our basic no-feedback tube design has remained unchanged for the past eighteen years. During this period we have manufactured thousands of preamps using various "quality" versions of 6DJ8 and 6922 tubes with minimal pre-mature tube failure. Indeed, almost all of the preamplifiers we manufactured have normal tube life exceeding two years of normal operation. It is also interesting to note that we constantly receive calls from our preamp owners who have operated their units for over ten years and report they are still using the origional set of tubes with no problems. Also please note that if it were true that our preamps were hard on tubes then all of our units would experience tube problems.
You and other concerned audioasylum members are urged to contact us or any of our authorized dealers who will attest to the reliability of
tubes in our preamps. Additionally, we will now post technical data regarding our use of tubes in our preamp design. Information may be obtained from our dealers or your e-mail to info@audibleillusions.com.We look forward to resolving any further misgivings.
Audible Illusions:You may also want to contact one of the SoundStage! writers as he published a review in which he mentioned the "tube-eating" tendencies of the AIM3a preamp.
Andrew
Andrew:
Audible Illusions is well aware that audiophiles and "reviewers" like to experiment with various versions of 6DJ8, 7308, 6922 etc. tubes in their preamps. However many fail to realize in that the Modulus is a "high performance" preamp in that its no-feedback, open-loop design requires low noise graded and matched tubes. Unfortunately many of the tubes being experimented with just don't meet this criteria. Certainly you wouldn't put cheap gas in a Ferrari.For many years we have produced thousands of Modulus preamplifiers based on the same circuit design. Be advised the vast majority of these preamps made show better that 2-3 years reliable tube service. We also constantly receive calls from Modulus owners with units from the 1980's and many of them are still running their original tubes. If it were true that our preamps "eat tubes" then this would be true for every Modulus we made.
There are several good brands of tubes for the Modulus on the current market. Unfortunately there are those suppliers who are just selling "junk" to make a quick buck. Suggest you purchase tubes from a reliable source who has pretested, sorted and graded their tubes and offers some kind of warranty.
As much as I love the sound of my AI preamp, it is a nightmare when replacing tubes with anything other than Sovteks. Out of 7 Amperex 6922s, I could only find 2 that will even work. And these 2 are moody,"today I will play fine, tomorrow I will be noisy, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it." They mock me with no shame whatsoever. I have 4 Siemens 7308s that refuse to play at all. It gets quite frustrating sometimes, and the only thing that keeps me from dumping the damn thing altogether is the sweet sound it makes.I will soon be trying the 7DJ8s that Lampa recommended. If they don't act right, I may be in the market for a new preamp, and boy I don't want that......
Oz
Ozzie
Please understand that due to our "high-gain, no-feedback design" all 6DJ8, 7308, 6922 tubes must be burned-in, pretested and carefully graded and matched before inserting in our preamps. Apparently you are purchasing raw or untested NOS tubes from unreliable sources.Suggest you contact us for an authorized dealer who will be happy to sell you quality-guaranteed tubes for your preamp.
How many and what types of tubes does it use? How hard does it drive them? If a manufacturer can't estimate running costs with any confidence, I wouldn't buy the amp new. I'm sure users can describe their experience with older amps. Barring catastrophic failure of a part, a reasonably designed amp used a few hours a day shouldn't require tube changes for several years, IMHO. Some designers (David Berning, e.g.) run tubes very conservatively and can estimate 10-20 years of service for certain models.
Hello Cataele,I look at it this way -- Instead of freaking out about the sound of SS gear like I used to, and having to keep trying new SS amps and such to get better sound --- I just try different tubes in my tube gear. Different tubes vary in price from free to maybe $25-30.00 a piece and in almost all cases they will change the sound of the system. This saves me money because I don't have to buy a new amp or preamp to get a different sound!!! It really can be fun too, can't say that about SS. When was the last time you changed to different output transistors??
Mike
> > Different tubes vary in price from free to maybe $25-30.00 a piece and in almost all cases they will change the sound of the system. < <Becareful here because some NOS/used output tubes (e.g. 300B, Genelex KT-88, etc.) can run easily over hundreds dollars/pair. Also, some NOS preamp tubes (e.g. Amperex 7308 Gold Pin/White Label PQ) can easily run over $30 each. And lets not forget how expensive early 6SN7 preamp/input tubes (e.g. VT-231) have gotten, even used ones. Personally, I like to find used tubes that test near new. I find that they are already broken-in and can be far cheaper then new ones.
> > This saves me money because I don't have to buy a new amp or preamp to get a different sound!!! < <
I agree. My Audion Sterling single-ended amp can use 7 different types of output tubes and in each case the sound is different. But then again depending on which tube it can be very expensive or very reasonable price wise.
I had the Cary 300SE monoblocs for seven years. I only had to change tubes twice during all that time. One Cetron 300B and two rectifier tubes. And that was because of a cat-driven accident. Note: this is a real cat, not an amplifier.The cat is still alive. And doing well.
Last week my cat ran in to one of my amp and hit the output tube. Luckily the amps were off. I turn the amp on to check and was shock to see the violet/bule glow inside the tube near the getter. It turn out that one of the tube's leg got loss and air could get in. It this cover by warrenty?Now I have to buy a new tube. The question I have is... Should I buy single tube wihch will cost me $275? OR should I buy a new matched pair which will cost me $595? Both tube including the one that broke are only about 8 months old. I think I got to make a cover for my amp now
That is my cat Bubble with my 1937 Philco 84B tube radio which sound great, I play my music through it via a AM tranmiter that I built myself. If the pic doesn't work go to http://members.aol.com/setpower1/Bubble.jpg
I've been using a set of cables with spades instead of the others I have with banana's as my cats will somehow get the banana's pulled out. Apparently, none of the pos and neg leads touched each other when coming out, but I'm not going chance it again!
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