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76.25.70.1
The video starts out discussing music remixes but eventually progresses to smartphone law suits. You Apple haters will love this!
Follow Ups:
Not everyone copies although like writing a clever script, it is much easier to use variations of what has gone before or to stand on push the accepted boundaries which has shock value.
It is that difficulty in coming up with something genuinely new that is why we have patent protection. They are useful for fighting companies that copy your idea BUT there is no protection until the patent issues (if it does).
Also now days like other court issues, you often get the quality of justice you pay for and not a universal / fair system (blind justice)..
Since I buy nothing from Apple and never will It matters not. To much $$$$ for a name, there are to many brands out there that are just as good or better and priced better ...... :^)
Copyright for anything in the computer field needs to be seriously shortened.
Also too many trivial patents of all types have been allowed to be issued.
It is as if english grammer was patented. And folks were still suing for tiny variations to this day.
Just because Walt Disney wants to hang on to it's cash cow doesn't mean all the rest should too.
Clearly computers and the internet rocketed the intellectual property and copyright perceptions into new levels.
Personally I do feel bad about many VERY creative folks who played, wrote songs, so on, who clearly deserve some $ for their efforts. But at the same time, much of the $ generated by music folks goes straight into the record company / label and never gets to the creative folks who crafted the product.
Its a crying shame when one reads/hears about great Jazz musicians from the glory days of the 50s-60s that signed their lively hood away in contracts. Same with the rockers of the 60s-70s. Nowadays the cats out of the bag on that practice. Big reason why allot of musicians are using the web for direct distribution of their work. Try and grass root their efforts.
One of my favorite grunge bands from my teen years, Weezer, made a song called Jamie. Its about their affection for their lawyer who protected their earnings when they got signed.
I listen to allot of music genres. I for one, loved The Grey Album talked about in TED. It was an amazing mash up effort. Another great example of such work done simpler (sort of) is DJ Z-Trip. Does a great job of old school, record spinning. This type of music is HUGE with young folks and only gonna keep getting bigger. Law will need to adapt to stay somewhat relevant.
Lastly, I cant remember the speaker or the lecture title. But have you seen the TED piece about how with current copyright laws, we are simply breeding the youth to not take laws seriously? The fellow made a great case about how youth dont see what they are doing as wrong with mix ups, and clearly its not. This combined with laws that try and make a case, where there is none, is simply raising kids to not take laws seriously. Wonderful piece.
Thanks again Abe
Dave
Even at my level at Xerox I watched true innovation walk right out the door. It wasn't until someone wrote a book (Fumbling The Future) chronicling an expanded menu of property that simply walked out the door, with written permission, that I realized my retirement investments were in far more serious danger than expected.
Some employees lost a majority of their retirement funds trusting managements business abilities. For employees who did moved their investments around to save what they could, the impact was still substantial. Its gut wrenching to work for a company were the cancer of utter stupidity goes unchecked.
I can't speak to either side of this litigation at this point other than to say I'd go for it if I thought I had a shot.
Keeps you from making good investments.
.
anything. But by sueing. They create the illusion that they are innovative. Even if they lose the court case. I.e. Apple vs Microsoft (wrt GUI)
To infinity and beyond!!!
Edits: 08/14/12
I'd say that acquisitions/takeovers are the more common means of acquiring technology than "copying".
At one time I had some Cisco stock and was blown away at how many companies they gobbled up.
That seemed pretty innovative to me and has enjoyed amazing market acceptance.
Not my cup of tea, but impressive none the less.
Rick
No Text
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Well, yea...
But while portable CD or cassette players work well for me because I mostly listen to longish music like classical or opera they aren't much for pop music fans. Remember 45's? That what-tune-next paradigm got lost with the rise of the LP as did that of having listening booths in record shops where you could prehear individual 45's and 78's.
They virtualized the experience, at least I suppose they did, I've never bought any music from Apple but I have from HD Tracks and there you can listen to excerpts before buying. On top of that they charged a lot more for it but you no longer had to pay for sorry songs or balderdash back-sides.
Invention is really about seeing the possibilities, and the extant possibilities are a function of the fabric of society and technology at a given time. Arguments that amount to nothing being "new" because of that are specious, we build on generationally acquired knowledge. That's how humans progress, we record the past and don't need to rediscover it. True, we may learn to understand it at a deeper level but that's because we don't have to keep starting over.
If you want to see what happens by failing to learn over time just look at politics or economics and compare it to engineering of almost any ilk, it's a sorry sight...
As far as Apple wanting to defend their design patents, assuming that they have them, why shouldn't they? However SW patents in general shouldn't exist, they are simply a terrible idea and were from the get-go and I believe were created solely to funnel money to the legal profession. Originally we just had copyright coverage and that, on the other hand, does make sense.
Enough... Too much?
Regards, Rick
Rick,
When I say Disk based I am referring to the hard drive music player, give me some credit.
In fact, the first portable digital music player patented by a Brit in 1979 looks a LOT like a first generation iPod. It was designed for "Magnetic Bubble" Memory, the 1970's equivalent of solid state "Flash Memory" and so was conceptually years ahead of Apples first iPod.
In 1979.
Several Hardrive Juke boxes or whatever you want to call them notched up significant sales before the iPod was even started as product project. Equally, stores that would allow you to legally download MP3's and have software "sync" them to such a player existed before iTunes.
Similar prior art can be fielded for ANY supposed Apple "innovation". Sure, non of these devices and shops had the reach and financial clout of Apple, but THEY invented and innovated.
Apple in turn copied what it considered good ideas (they where good ideas) and took over, using their financial clout to out-advertise and outsell those who's ideas it was using. In fact in many cases it ended up suing those original Innovators for being in competition with their Product (so what happens now is nothing new, it "Standard Operating Procedure" for Apple). Their corporate behaviour matches B*se, take others ideas, make copies, patent them and then sue the hell out of the competition and pay top dollars to Lawyers, so you get the law ˙our way"...
My point is that Apple does not do: "Invention is really about seeing the possibilities, and the extant possibilities are a function of the fabric of society and technology at a given time." Others do that.
What Apple does and has always done well is to take OTHERS inventions and innovations and to hone and polish them a little and then sell the proverbial manure out of them. It arguably does this much better than any other technology company. It should continue to do so.
It is Apple's "Sucess Formula", quoth he Steve Jobs:
"Good artists copy. Great artists steal." (SJ quoting Dali)
"And we've always been shameless, about stealing great ideas." (this is a true Jobsism, not something stolen from others)
By doing this Apple has always forced others to raise their game or go out of business. So as long as open competition is assured people like Apple force global improvements for the whole market and thus benefit everyone.
Where this becomes an problem is when Apple cries "foul" if others play the same game it does and beat Apple at it. It becomes a problem when it tries to stifle competition.
It becomes a problem when Steve Jobs pulls a Khrushchev and banging his metaphorical shoe on the metaphorical rostrum insists that Apple will "bury" Android. Now Android is in effect open source, open standard, fundamentally free and based on Linux, so it can run on anything, if ported, even Apple Hardware. It becomes a problems when Apple then misappropriates Shareholders money to fund such a personal vendetta in the courts, to the tune of 100's of Millions, instead of investing this money into better products.
Even more ironic is that Apple's OSX and iOS has a lot of DNA that harks back to open source software like BSD, GNU, Mach and even Linux (shock, horror). Pot, Kettle, Black?
It becomes a problems when Apple sues others on the basis of Patents that are invalid due to PRIOR ART (look it up, it is a technical/legal term) by the very people it is suing, especially HTC and Motorola.
Samsung is a mega multi, they can afford to bleed a little (or as far as I care a lot) "for the cause" and quite frankly, the whole trial is bizarre. Samsungs own tech without which Apple would have no worthwhile processors in their iCopy sevices (yup, Samsung not only makes most of the Displays for Apple, but also Memory, CPU's and other stuff, one might say 70% of the electronics BOM cost of an iCopy piece is Samsungs).
If Apple went elsewhere they would be years behind the curve, just like the cheap sub 100 USD Chinese Android Smartphones using "vanilla" ARM Cortex Processors. Samsung can simply stop supplying Apple (though the commercial impact on Samsung may be greater than even the exorbitant 2.5 Billion US Dollar fines Apple is seeking) and watch Apple struggle and wriggle while it's own devices clober Apple six ways to Sunday.
So what we see in Court is a performance, it is an art form, a play, a farce, not any substance. Yet Apple filed the suits, not Samsung.
Fundamentally Apple now does much worse what Microsoft was accused for (rightly) in the 90's, it makes M$ look the "good guys" (heck, what kind of a change) and fundamentally Apple are the Kopy Kats (arguably they copy with style) and the ones who wish to stifle innovation by any and all means in the interest of preserving their near monopoly, no matter how much they present themselves in their advertising as the actual innovators.
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
"When I say Disk based I am referring to the hard drive music player, give me some credit."
OK, your account has been credited... It just never crossed my mind that you didn't mean CD's!
You certainly have followed the field far closer than I have, I thought that it went straight from Walkman to iPod. My interest in listening to music afoot is nil so cassette or CD players did the job in the office. My interest in Apple is nil also as I never met one I really liked but have used quite a few. This iPad is the most likable but it can be frustrating as all get out and that largely revolves around it's lack of file management. I'm hooked on tablets for couch computing and when I got this one it really was the only viable choice, but I bet 18 months from now there will be some serious options. XPmobile?
Rick
Rick,I started listening to streaming music on my PC in the mid/late 90's, while working late at the office, some music box site with questionable legality. This was still via a DIAL UP LINK (but an unmetered one) as our Site did not yet have permanent connection to the net, that came 6 month later for the X400 (Route 400 E-Mail system). I was managing the local network back then.
I have followed anything in "computer music" quite closely since. Early hard drive and/or flash based Portable Juke Boxes came from Seahan (MPMan - 1997), Diamond (Rio - 1998), Compaq/Hango (Personal Jukebox 6GB HDD - 1998), Creative (Nomad 6GB HDD - 2000).
Tablet computers where championed by Microsoft and several manufacturers had ultra-compact (usually 13" Screen) Notebooks that allowed the screen to be folded down and thus became a "slate", some even made keyboard less pure slates.
Microsoft and HTC also did a lot of work on Touchscreen Smartphones, I had several over the Years since 2004, now I have a Droid Phone and a Droid 10" Tablet (not Samsung - I'm too cheap to spend money on Badges).
What you can take away from this is that Apple's advertising is so effective that it actually created to you the impression that all these items where invented by Apple (rather than copied from others).
Quite similar to what B*se has achieved in the Audio World, where everyone and their redneck cousin from the Ozark Mountains believes that B*se is actually HiFi, innovates and often that B*se has invented HiFi...
What is perhaps worse is that Apple and it's most devoted fans believe their own hype...
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Edits: 08/16/12 08/16/12
Interesting, I was oblivious to the early digital audio gear, thanks for the historical perspective.
On the other hand I am generally familiar with the computers you mentioned and once considered the convertible hp. The main reason I bought this device, the iPad, was because it didn't have a fan. Even better the only moving parts are four switches. Every laptop I've had has had fan and/or hard drive failure and usually display hinge problems. I really wanted a Windows "netbook" size thing with no fan but apparently they don't exist. I marched into my dealer a couple years ago and said "show me your fan-less portables. Well that didn't take long since the only ones he had were Apples and this thing cost half what their net-bookish laptop did. And I was curious what a tablet would be like.
Now that I'm used to it I've found most of the drawbacks are SW. the only HW thing I really long for is size, a 12" screen would be a lot better for eyes and fingers of my age. The SW drawbacks are enormous, compared to say, Windows, this is really a weak sister, but it's an appliance, not a computer. Even the spelling checker sucks and those were perfected decades ago. BUT I love, love, love not having a fan! Guess I'm like a one-issue voter, but I got the main thing I wanted and oddly enough, despite fanless being my driving specification, I actually appreciate it even more than I thought I would!
There is, of course, no perfect form-factor and while I'd like to have a real keyboard I also appreciate how well this works for reading.
I know that Apple has a very loyal following, but I hope this is my last one, their philosophy just doesn't jibe well with me at any level except for the fan thing...
Rick
Rick,> The main reason I bought this device, the iPad, was because it
> didn't have a fan. Even better the only moving parts are four switches.
> Every laptop I've had has had fan and/or hard drive failure and
> usually display hinge problems.Yes, I ran into these a lot too. For many Years I had a strict hierarchy applying to any Laptop for my use. My favorite top 3 Laptop Brand where Toshiba, Toshiba and Toshiba, in that precise order, but only their metal shell top of the line business machines from the last year (so all the reliability, performance etc, but a normal price).
In recent years Toshiba's star has waned and I now prefer IBM/Lenovo T Series Stink Pads. I can think of many curses for their inadequate battery life, poor quality displays, fugly design and so on. Toshiba does all that better.
But the display hinges don't break, neither do the hard drives (some smart software and a G-Sensor see to that) and on mains power they have enough power to run pretty much anything I can think of. And they are like the ruddy Energiser Bunny, they keep running, running and running, in the precise way most others don't.
And if you drown the Keyboard in Red-Wine or Whiskey-Coke so badly the build in safeguards for that eventuality fail (or your two year old daughter likes to pry off the keys), you can actually get a replacement and fit it yourself very easily.
Oh. They have fan's, but they are VERY QUIET and in casual "Couch potato" use rarely even come on. With normal background noise levels in a quiet room I have not heard them in many years.
I absolutely HATE my Lenovo Stinkpad. I do. But I need a laptop that works and survives the war-zone called living room with a 2YO and all the travelling. Very little else does.
I tried others, again and again.
I recently had an Asus that was great in some ways, > 8 Hours Battery Life in low power mode with usable speed, very light, Super Fast CPU with great 3D GFX on Mains Power that made all the CAD, Simulation and PCB Layout software I use fly.
It lasted less than 9 Month and was looking tatty after 6. But at least it was not hinges that broke, like they did 3 times in one year on a Dell I owned...
> I really wanted a Windows "netbook" size thing with no fan but
> apparently they don't exist. I marched into my dealer a couple
> years ago and said "show me your fan-less portables. Well that
> didn't take long since the only ones he had were Apples and this
> thing cost half what their net-bookish laptop did.Original iPad. Biggest issue I have with the bleedin lot, it cannot even surf the web properly. Most popular websites use Flash. On iPad, no-go. I do want more than play angry birds and play MP3's.
> Now that I'm used to it I've found most of the drawbacks are SW.
I have a 10" Droid Tab. The issues I find are hardware.
The screen is too small.
On screen Keyboard for serious work, puleeese!
If I add Keyboard and screen in my travel bag I might as well take the Stinkpad.
So I carry the Tablet for "light" traveling (read e-mail but answer only life/death stuff, read Books and Mags, Play Games, essential websurfing - like where is the nearest starbucks and on long journeys load up some Movies), but I carry both the Tab and my Stinkpad for serious travelling.
Nowadays the Stinkpad stays at the hotel while I take the Tab out though (and my smartphone).
What I really want is a 14" Screen thin Slate that I can carry around, which has enough poke on external power to run CAD and an easily attached thin and light keyboard. Can someone PLEASE tell Microsoft to stop copying Apple's wrong form factor and give the Surface some serious 'roids. I think I'll get a 10"surface anyway.
As frequent traveler on both long hauls and overnight trains I'd also appreciate 16 Hours battery life, for light use. Pretty please?
> I know that Apple has a very loyal following,
Yes, basically Apple should be listed as "Cult".
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Edits: 08/16/12
( > BUT I love, love, love not having a fan! Guess I'm like a one-issue voter,)
A NO-fan boy.
Bill
Well put...
Why are GUI's so "in" when words are so much more fun?
Rick
...are great for the pre-schoolers I happen to live with.
They are learning to navigate with the GUI of the future. One day it will all be touch screens - perhaps even keyboards will be obsolete. We went from the light-pen screen and tablet to the keyboard mouse, and now we're at touchscreen only - for example, iPhones and iPads.
Anything that gets the kids into computers and reading online material is a good start IMO.
Cheers,
Presto
Microsoft is worse. Bill Gates never came up with an original idea in his life, not even DOS. Dos was bought when they failed to write their own, Word, Excel, Explorer, Money, etc... were all basically stolen from what I understand. They stole everything and leveraged their monopoly to drive the innovators out of business. Kind of sad when our two most successful tech companies aren't the ones who actually invented the systems that they use when we celebrate that kind of inventiveness.
Hi,> Microsoft is worse. Bill Gates never came up with an original idea in
> his life, not even DOS. Dos was bought when they failed to write their
> own, Word, Excel, Explorer, Money, etc... were all basically stolen
> from what I understand.If you call buying a company and merging their products into your own product line stealing, then Microsoft indeed did that. As did Novell, Corel, Adobe and IBM.
> They stole everything and leveraged their monopoly to drive the
> innovators out of business.I was working in IT during the time Microsoft gaining a near Monopoly, when businesses transitioned from a mismatched mix of Novell Netware, Word Perfect, Lotus on top of DOS & Windows etc. to pure Microsoft Infrastructures.
We resisted this change, but the fact is that the competing products where SO BAD, they where unusable and had to be ditched ditched. We may argue why this was (did MS sabotage their own OS?). But given that there was also very good non Microsoft software on Windows the answer is that Market Leaders like Wordperfect, Lotus and Novell simply felt they could rest on their Laurels and would always have their customers, no matter how bad their products where.
By comparison M$'s products where less expensive and actually worked mostly as expected (Word crashed around 1/100'th of the time Word Perfect did), with M$ giving organisations excellent bulk licencing deals on top. The truth, M$ was simply better all around.
As for the story with DOS, IBM originally went to Digital Research to get an OS for their PC. Exactly what happened is disputed (some say the Boss was out flying his airplane and left IBM's people wait for hours before not turning up at all), but IBM's people left fuming and vowed not do business with DR.
Next they visited Microsoft to get a Basic Interpreter and mentioned the whole story and asked if Bill knew anyone else they could get an OS from. Unlike his competitors he decided not to turn business away from his door when it came knocking and promised IBM an OS from Microsoft.
All that said, Microsoft later did behave in ways that stifled competition and was rightly investigated for it, fined and made to change it's business practices. But even at the most extreme, most brazen Microsoft never managed to be halve as bad as Apple now is.
Apple combines hardware, software, seeks to retain market domination by suing everyone and most crucially prevents it's customers from buying media and software through any other source than Apple, essentially forcing an "Apple Tax" of 30% on any piece of software or media a Apple customer buys. And it should be noted that a number of probes into Apple's behaviour are now in progress.
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Edits: 08/15/12
"Apple……and most crucially prevents it's customers from buying media and software through any other source than Apple…"
Personally I have plenty of non-Apple software on my Mac and I do not know anybody who was stupid enough to have bought extra memory or HDs from Apple.
Everybody with even the tiniest interest in their computers knows that.
Hey,
I am referring specifically to the iOS devices and the USA (with it's legislation).
If you do not jailbreak your iOS device, you must buy from Apple.
If you do, you are a criminal under US Law (thankfully the EU is less silly on that count, for now).
And even on your Apple PC, how much software did you buy through Apple and how much independently?
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
"If you do not jailbreak your iOS device, you must buy from Apple. If you do, you are a criminal under US Law"
If you live in a fascist country, chances are great that you are a "criminal" who can be locked up anytime the fascists want.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Except the software which came preloaded I have not bought any software through Apple at all.
I didn't even buy the computer itself through Apple but through a friend who works in a pro audio shop. He has forgotten more about Apple computers than those idiots in the local Apple Store will ever know since he has been working on them for about 20 years now.
Being a german national living in the UK I care very little about silly US laws.
Neither do I own nor will ever own an iphone (or any other smart phone for that matter), ipad or suchlike.
According to an ex-girlfriend Gates compiled MS-Dos on an Apple I or II.
MS always had a Windows version running on PowerPC chips, in fact the developers pack they sent out for their xbox consisted of an Apple Mac G5 running the then current version of Windows.
Very few TRUE inventions.
If only those ideas were given patents there would be very little for patent attorneys to argue about.
That is what is so silly about all of this.
Much of this reminds me of the continuing confusion between science and technology on these pages.
nt
I'm all for standing on the shoulders of giants, but that implies you are reaching a little further. Not just stealing!
I really don't understand why Apple fanbois have to take everything so personal.
There are numerous Apple products in my house and I am considering purchase of another Apple product in a few months. Nonetheless, Apple can suck it when it comes to patent infringement. The same goes for Samsung. I don't own nor do I forsee ever owning a Samsung product.
Like I said a few weeks ago, these greedy bastards would patent "thinking" if they could.
They have either material or psychological vested interests.
This guy has just LOLed in response to a complain about a post I made being 'non audio'; yet chooses do do it immediately himself.
LOL
"This guy has just LOLed in response to a complain about a post I made being 'non audio'; yet chooses do do it immediately himself."
The video post makes the connection between music - audio remixes and concoctions of previous works - and the Samsung defense. So there's an audio connection there, in case you missed it.
P.S. If I were such an Apple fanboi, I probably wouldn't have posted the video for inmate's consumption.
They're sounding like good corporate citizens like those fine fellows down at "rhymes with Shmonster".
They're low enough to sic the rhymes police on yo ass!
nt
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