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I just accepted a buyer's offer on Audiogon for a $750 item. Now that I see his address and phone number, he has me shipping to a freight forwarder and his phone number is in Russia. He has 1 positive feedback on Audiogon from about 2 years ago from an experienced Audiogoner. I called the freight forwarder and his account has been open for about 4 months and he's shipped about 5 packages through with no complaints of fraud to the forwarder. The forwarder has two forms of ID on file for the account holder. I haven't received payment yet so I can't check to see if the address is verified in PayPal.
One odd thing is the item is 120V and Russia is 220V.
What do you think?
Follow Ups:
Sometimes the paranoia from you US inmates is amusing assuming that selling to international customers is fraught with risk.Once you receive your money on a wire transfer, it is yours. There is no risk in receiving money,.international wire transfers are standard business practice overseas. Banks or individuals cannot take money out of a some else's bank account - period no matter if you have the bank account no and BIC no.
Being in Australia, I buy used gear on a semi regular basis. They guys just quoting on sell to Lowe 48 states are only losing legitimate sales. On guy on audiogon refused my offer on a phono stage as I was not in the USA. No big deal, except he has now listed his item for a 2nd time without a sale. Basically it is his loss as he lost a legitimate sale.
Edits: 03/23/12
They think Canada is a commie country full of baby seal clubbers and all tundra, that should tell you something!
You mean it's not??? :)
Edits: 03/25/12
more than it is a business practice. For instance, if I buy an item which cost $5,000 from a person in Florida and I'm in California and I never recieve said item (or if the person flat out ignores me); I at least have some legal recourse (small claims court, BBB, Attny General's office -hell even fly down and P%$$' on the guy's lawn) but a person in Russia; wth I have? nothing; only a Audio forum to voice my sad complaints on...
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/24/12
The OP was talking about selling to someone outside of the USA, not buying from Russia.I probably would not buy some for $5000 from Russia as well. I have bought tubes from Russia without any problems whatsoever.
Please read and understand, wire transfer receipt into your banks account is 100% safe. That was the question.
Buying from anyone has an element of risk and an element of trust to whom ever you hand over your hard earned $$ regardless if it is from the USA, Singapore or Australia.
Edits: 03/24/12 03/24/12
the "entire" thread; not just yours that you apparently ran to defend...and within this thread it presents various transaction scenarios including:
-bank-to-bank wire transfers,
-writing checks,
-Western Union, etc..NOT just wire transfers, so perhaps you should follow your own advice and open your eyes and read the text.
And btw, not everyone in life will agree with your assesments; you shouldn't be so obviously insecure when someone attaches a reply to your post in a non-agreeable fashion...sheesh
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/25/12
You responded to my answer, not the general question. Do you not understand that.Get over yourself
Edits: 03/26/12
when I read a post and a person chooses the 'polite, tactful, gentlemen's approach' to point out a flaw (although I insist mine was accurate and on point) in a post.And then there's yours.
Listen, I'm through with this thread -anyway, and I hope my other post offered some assistance to the OP.
I'll let you have the last word on this even though you continue to embarrase yourself. Its becoming quite apparent that you nsist upon it.
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/26/12
You make a valid point and I think a lot of it has to do with not being familiar with international transactions and shipping. I am speaking for myself. On the other hand, with such a big market of buyers in the USA, we rarely get the opportunity to sell internationally.
As for trust, I trust folks from most countries, especially allied nations. At the risk of sounding racist, I'm not so trusting of certain cultures. Enough said.
If you're shipping to a freight forwarder in the USA -AND- you get funds sent to you via Western Union, it's very safe. I once shipped a surround processor to Egypt via a New York freight forwarder whose address was provided by the buyer in Egypt. They handle the paperwork for getting the gear into Egypt.
I picked up my money at a local Western Union (at my grocery store), stuffed the wad of CASH in my pocket. Satisfied that the CASH was real, I then shipped the item to NY.
Easy money!
I also shipped a rather inexpensive item to Australia and it was a bit of a pain filling out the necessary USPS paperwork. But I took a chance since it wasn't a pricey item. It all went smoothly but I prefer not to ship directly overseas because of the paperwork hassle.
NO EXCEPTIONS.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
This bank transfer thing sounds pretty safe to me as long as you pull your money out.
Overseas shipping is a huge PITA and fraught with opportunities for aggravation and monetary loss.
Sit tight...the item will sell.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
..in russia anyone can send money out via paypal..which would be safe for you..but you cannot send money to them..i have sold many items to audiogoners in russia and have used paypal each time. you have to declare the value of what you are sending him for no more then $200 or it will not get there ..if you are going to use fedex...
Thats why I always specify in my ads that I will only ship to the lower 48 states. Saves me a lot of hassle. You made an agreement with the guy and if you back out, he could leave you negative feedback. If I were him, I know I would. He has great feedback with the freight forwarder, so whats the problem? Is it because the package is going to Russia? All Russians are not cheats or frauds. If it were me, I would honor my agreement.
Bob
I throw my windows open wide and call to you across the sky.
Your "Lower 48 States Policy" is ridiculous and jingoistic, but it's your business! I have bought and sold stuff on Audiogon, eBay, Audio Asylum, and have only had two problems and they were both from California sellers. Should I stop dealing with people from California?
...and because he only has one piece feedback on Audiogon and because his PayPal address isn't confirmed and because his freight forwarding account is relatively new.
I recently bought two laptops from Dell. I entered my credit card info into dell.com and ordered them. Later, they called me and had me go through a bunch of fraud verification. If I hadn't been willing to go through that or if they hadn't been able to get ahold of me, they wouldn't have completed the transaction. That's not Dell refusing to honor an agreement. That's risk management.
For fraud verification, I'm insisting on a wire transfer.
I haven't received payment yet so I can't check to see if the address is verified in PayPal.
Why the worry then?
When you have the money in your account,
you then send the item to the verified address. Verified address only.He could be an ok guy you know.......
One odd thing is the item is 120V and Russia is 220V.So? That is what they make step down transformers for.
Check the archives here for 220V equipment being used here in the US on 240V mains.
Edits: 03/21/12
I think you have answered your own question by the fact you are asking fellow inmates what they think. You obviously have some suspicion and doubt. If it smells like Sh&t, It probably is sh&t; You don't have to taste it to confirm it. Walk away....
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Old joke:
What's that? Looks like sh&t. Smells like sh&t. Tastes like sh&t. Good thing I didn't step in it.
When you have no recourse on a money reversal, insist on a bank transfer as the form of payment.
You are 100% protected. Once the money is in your account, it is yours. the other person cannot claw it back.
Once you have the actual correct amount, who cares how the person asks to have it shipped.
Now if suddenly they want to send you a bank check for $10,000. and ask you to send them $7,000 back, then you know it is fraud.
I have sent stuff to Germany, to a prson who just really wanted that item. They were the one to suggest a bank transfer.
Anyway, if the person is legit they will be willing to send the money in a way you feel safe. If not, then just do not go through with the transaction.
Back in the '90s, I vacationed in Europe. I wanted a hotel in Munich at the height of Octoberfest. Check sent to a German bank and no further problems. Room waiting.
Too much is never enough
Doesn't that require that I give him my bank account number? Is that safe?
....you are giving them your account number and the bank's routing number. That's what all those numbers at the bottom of a check are.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
whom you consider a fraud suspect?
each time you write a personal check and hand it to someone; (along with your routing number as well).Wouldn't take much for a con artist to order up checks with your name and address (and above mentioned acct and routing numbers) and wipe you out of your checking acct -I'd be more concern with that more than I would with a wire transfer (which, would fall upon your bank rather than you if they're defrauded IMO).
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/21/12
Could my bank try to pull the funds back out of my account if the sender claims fraud or something?
I'd doubt if any bank would want to get involved in conflict resolution with anyone; much less someone from a foreign Country like Russia.And its not like the Nigerian scams that have you cash bogus checks; I mean once the indiviual cashes "your" check; its recorded and documented through your bank.
Personally, I wouldn't ship squat unless the funds were safe in my bank -via wire transfer.
Keep in mind even with Paypal he can run a scam claiming he never received the items.
Or, he could be a legit buyer that fell victim to mail fraud or whatever..
Shipping to foreign countries is always the most risky since regulations vary so widely.
And although many will most likely chime in and claim having great sucess in shipping abroad; I personally wouldn't ship outside the US (AK and HI are ok, but higher shipping cost) and would denote this on my ad.
But once again I agree with the others; bank to bank wire transfer is probably the safest (at least on this side of the Earth).
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/21/12
Elizabeth is right. Just ask your bank how to give wire instructions. Forward on to your buyer.
If he is willing to wire your bank the cash then fine. Proceed with the transaction.
customs may be another matter. Make it clear to the buyer that you are not responsible once it
arrives in Russia.
In this case I would not use PayPal as it would still be possible for fraud to occur.
If you ever give anyone a check they have your account number.
Generally the "Bank transfer" is safe for the recipient.
The sender has no recourse if things go bad. Once you have the money, the sender cannot demand it back. not force it back in any manner.
You can Wiki bank transfer. Or Google it.
That way if I am buying, I send the money from this account, and even if someone were to try to take money from the account there would only be $1 in it. And if I am selling, I immediately take the money out of the account, so there is no chance of a take back.
More and more banks will now charge you a monthly fee for that since it falls below their monthly minimum balance.
My good friends at Chase have so informed me.
nt
I refunded the PayPal payment and he's asked for my bank details for the wire transfer but things are quite fishy at this point. I feel funny giving him my bank details. I realize they're on every personal check I write, but isn't there some danger in giving them out in a situation like this? I wish I had a dummy account like Raiderman.
Even if you don't use it this time, you'll then have that for which you wished.
There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
—Leonard Cohen
I have more than one savings and checking accounts for various reasons. One I keep empty and then add just enough funds for online purchases ie., amazon, audiogon, etc., also have a Visa debit linked to it...works for me.
Theres been times where I've inadvertently 'clicked twice' on a purchase only to find out later it happened (or didn't happen- at least not on my part but I sure as hell got billed twice); beats the hassle of hunting down and wasting time in finding the right persons in resolving those matters.
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/21/12 03/21/12 03/21/12
I refunded the PayPal payment and he's asked for my bank details for the wire transfer but things are quite fishy at this point. I feel funny giving him my bank details.
You broke the contract..... You agreed to the sale then reneged on the deal....
The way I see it he can walk from the deal and try to leave negative feedback for you.
Try?
Because it is next to impossible to leave neg feedback on Agon.
1 - If you're not confident this is a sure thing, you should perhaps move on.
2 - I've handed out the info Elizabeth speaks of countless times with no problems yet.
Acct #, SWIFT code, branch number, location, etc.
If you get paid and the guy changes his mind, even with deposit, check with your bank, wait some time, before issuing any sort of refund. Again, if you are not 100% confiident, just back out.
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