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Suppose a potential customer walks into your shop wanting to buy a very specific and very expensive item. He has cash in hand, no questions to ask, knows exactly what he wants, and does not desire to haggle on price. Your "dream sale".Normally, you don't ask questions, just count the money. But then the potential customer blurts out the reason why he is so certain and willing to act quickly: He tells you that he has been shopping for months and has demo'ed that exact item and several of its competitors from another audio dealer. Yes, he was generally satisfied with the helpful service he had gotten (although he was mildly off-put at times by the condescending tone of the store's owner) and was happy with paying full price. But he discovered at the last moment through a friend of his that your store had a sale fall through and the item was uncharacteristically available in stock that very day! The other dealer who had invested all the time and resources, had to order it, and that would take a week. This item is something you don't normally don't stock, and you can't return it to the manufacturer. The buyer who backed out on this item decided on a more expensive alternative, which he bought from you. Now, your potential new customer doesn't really "need" this item immediately, but the weekend is coming up and he wants to have some fun NOW!
What do you do?
a) Politely ask him to leave your store after imploring him to be more patient with the other dealer, who invested so much of his time and resources convincing the customer to buy that item. Or, tell this lousy "customer" bluntly to f#ck off and buy from Audiogon. Your choice, depending on how much stress you've been under the past few hours.
b) Ask the customer for the name of the other dealer. Call the dealer up and offer to provide him the item from your stock at dealer cost so that he can consumate the sale with the impatient customer. After all, you theorize, "We dealers have to stick together". You get rid of an item you don't normally stock and generate good will with a fellow dealer who may return the favor someday. It's win-win!
c) Gleefully sell your "new friend" the item at full price despite the fact that you would consider him a bastard for abusing your store's time and resources if the shoe were on the other foot. Of course, you'll be extremely wary of this guy if he comes in again and you will most likely deny him any service in the future that requires you to go out of your way for him. This includes talking to him politely. But for now - it's take the money and run!
To hear some of the recent pontificating from many high-end dealers here lately, you would think options a) or b) would be the most correct responses. But why do I suspect that c) would be the most common real-life course of action, and the one that you all will no doubt attempt to justify below....
Follow Ups:
This story is flawed! Why you say? Because nobody pays full retail in the first place. The reason the first dealer was even going to get the sale to begin with was because he was cheaper but, could not produce. That's a very common occurence and in reality what probably really happened.
I'd have to say that most of the dealers who complain about this are pretty much just whiners. If they had to deal with the customers in my industry - then they might have reason to gripe.Why? What REAL service to most dealers provide beyond a place to audition some gear & maybe a bit of advice.
In my world - we spend hours engineering a design to meet a customer's needs. At that point, 8 out of 10 customers will take that engineering to as many competitors as they can find & have them quote a price for the same product. Once the job has been bid out, the customer simply has to wait to find the company who will drop their drawers the lowest. All this fun for gross margins that are averaging around 18% in the last few months (some competitors are selling well below break-even to try to keep up with overhead in the winter).
I was the crappy customer. Two local audio outlets. Call them "A" and "B". I had bought a pair of ProAc Response 2s from "A." Some time later, I heard the then-new Respnse 3s (MSRP, $6500) during a visit to that store. I had not gone in to hear them specificallly; they were just there.Some months later I spotted a classified ad for a pair of Response 3s by local dealer "B." They were trade-ins he was selling for $3700. Not the wood finish I would have preferred, but I snapped them up anyway, not thinking much about it (in terms of guilt pangs, that is). Now, dealer "B" told dealer "A" about this, and you can believe I heard "How could you?" from dealer "A". Time heals all wounds and I wound up buying more than $15K of stuff from Dealer "A".
Two months after my last purchase (CJ Premier 12s), dealer "A" disappeared from the scene after allegedly taking many cash deposits for gear he never delivered. He was even the subject of a warning article in "Listener" magazine, which had earlier praised his operation.
No particular moral. I just thought the irony was pretty delicious :-)
I'd just warn the buyer a potential conflict with the other dealer, sell the unit if he still wants it, and move on. Whatever the customer might have to do with that other dealer is between him and the other dealer, as far as I'm concerned.This is why I'd have the buyer leave a non-refundable deposit in a potential reverse situation, so if he backs out, at least the deposit will be due compensation. And this would be a signed, legally-binding agreement. This is standard policy at most places. And if the other dealer did that, the buyer will have lost that deposit, unless he buys the other unit as well.
if I was a dealer I am not sure I would want this guy as a customer. Maybe next time he pulls that on me...
I am a bit surprised by the way he got treated by Kevin Deal. I suppose the only admirable thing that Kevin made in that deal is the admission of his actions.I think B&M stores/dealers really need to realize just what their strengths are...as well as their weaknesses. I think many of them understand the strengths they have, yet they look away from the areas where they can be weak.
What I look for in a B&M store is service.
I expect to have a good selection of gear to audition in a decent room. I also would like to have a salesperson that is knowledgeable and helpful. For this...I don't mind spending a little extra money for good service.
Don't get me wrong...even the dealers that are looked at as good (in my area) still throw out lines of BS at times. Then some others sell equipment that is used as demo merchandise or demo as new. But they are still fairly good places to deal with.
In return I am upfront with my intentions and do not audition gear that they have...that I am looking to buy used. But there is no reason to treat a customer like crap because he has bought used gear in the past.
Now...to deal with your scenario. If I were the dealer I would ask if the person has auditioned this equipment anywhere else. If he has then I would recommend that he buy it at that store if he had no complaints with the way he was dealt with. If his only complaint was a 10% savings I'd suggest he be up front and honest with the other dealer. If he had a problem while dealing with the other store or if he insisted...I would sell it to him/her. I would also thank them for their time.Of course...I am not a business man. So this isn't a decision that I have to make to put bread on the table. Until I'm in this situation I cannot be sure what I'd do.
g'day,
dan
CLick the picture below to see my system
enjoy the music!
.... who may or may not be out to screw them would handle a customer who stands to benefit them at the expense of someone else.
I think option "c" is the most pragmatic answer. But it's the one internet sellers employ all the time. So any B&M dealer who answers "c" is being hypocritical if they complain about being "used" and losing sales to internet or Audiogon buyers. But are options "a" and "b" really viable alternatives for any dealer who wants to stay in business? Is it really incumbent on a seller to verify that a buyer is an "honorable" person, beyond relying on him to follow through on the terms of his sales transaction?Most savvy buyers explore numerous options before settling on one particular item or retailer. Holding a customer to a standard that requires he must buy from the dealer who invests the most time in cultivating the customer's desire is impractical. Almost no one suddenly decides to spend (for example) $20,000 for a pair of speakers on a whim. Someone who is interested in audio at this level likely came to this point after years of experience with (and purchases of) successively better or more expensive speakers from many different sources - both new and used. A dealer who thinks that his two hours of time convinced a buyer to spend $20,000 on a pair of speakers is being disingenuous. He is simply the one who was lucky enough to reap a profit potential that had been building for years.
So what to do about inconsiderate customers? If you can't set up a business model that makes buying from you attractive enough to produce a high enough percentage of sales, allowing you to absorb the cost of wasted time and resources through losing some of your leads to other dealers, then you have two choices. Either you go out of business or you find a way to recoup those costs. Seems to me it would be only fair to charge a "demo fee" for allowing a customer to take an item home to audition in his own space. As an incentive to buy, the fee could be applied to offset the purchase price. That way you provide a disincentive to tire kickers. And if you do lose the sale because an unscrupulous customer decides to buy the same item elsewhere, you at least have some compensation for your time and the wear to the demo equipment.
I used to work as a field engineer for a medical laser company (now defunct) that got into such a competitive situation with another laser company that they had to provide demo equipment for doctors to use free of any charge for months at a time to hopefully generate a sale. Of course, the other company followed suit. It was truly discouraging how, many times, I could tell the doctor was simply using one company against the other to get free use and maintenance while generating income off the equipment; delaying and delaying until ultimately deciding not to buy either or asking for a steep discount for accepting the "demo" unit that was provided to them brand new. It was frustrating that doctors, who you would expect to be more intelligent and ethical than the average person, would so blantantly take advantage of a company's honest efforts. But it happens all the time and at all levels. It's just a cost of doing business.
......……… that is funny. You can’t be serous?Surely you are not suggesting the Drs were ‘unintelligent’ for taking advantage of a commercial offer? When salesmen ‘offer’ an 'obligation free trial’ of a product it means EXACTLY that. The problem is some sales people, and companies, fail to understand what obligation free means.
As for the ethics, who made the offer? You are on extremely shaky ground claiming the customer is unethical for taking advantage of a “marketing spiel”
Any person who successfully runs/owns a business, especially in retailing, well understands that ‘tire-kickers’ are a DAILY cost of being in business. It really isn’t a big deal.
Smile
Sox
It wasn't necessarily the fact that these were taking advantage of a free trial period that I found unethical. It was the way that a small percentage used one company against the other for excessively long periods of time to take advantage of an option that was ostensibly provided for them to make a quick purchase decision in order to avoid having to pay either company anything . Many clearly had no intention of buying anything from the start; a few took the attitude that the company should be "honored" to have someone as important as they were to evaluate the laser. One doctor (a cosmetic surgeon) scheduled dozens of patients over the course of several months, acquired a laser on trial, performed all the procedures, then returned the laser. A few trumped up phony service complaints or asked for special modifications and then asked for extensions in order to "properly evaluate" the equipment. One doctor got free demos of four different models without buying anything before the company finally cut him off. Another, after using these delaying tactics for nearly a year, coughed up a payment only after the demo unit was repossessed while he was out of the office. Of course he demanded a new unit - and he wanted it there next day.If you find this type of behavior "ethical", remind me never to do any sort of business with you!
........……..arrrrrrrrrr now we are getting to the crux of the matter. So the obligation free trial period was not really the intended purpose of the generosity?You say \\\Many clearly had no intention of buying anything from the start/// but you still provided the goods? ( is it any wonder the joint went bust)
It is a very simple rule of buisness ( especially when it is your own money) if you want to be cute with slick marketing techniques ( like obligation free trials) DON’T whinge when clients take advantage of them. There is only ONE way a client can keep a product for “nearly a year” before paying and that is if the SELLER of said product allows that to happen, period!
I will be happy to discuss ethics with you any time BUT don’t whinge about ethics when you offer a obligation FREE trial and someone takes the offer literally. How dare they!!!
Smile
Sox
.........In Australia a retailer who did option “a” could possibly, deservedly so IMHO, be prosecuted if a complaint was made against his actions.Option “b” is only appropriate if some type of commercial arrangement is in place with the ‘other dealer’. If so the customer need not know about the business arrangement
You say \\\The other dealer who had invested all the time and resources /// - This may come as a ‘shock’ to some but that is what retailing is all about. Dealing with customers both good and bad is part of the commercial reality of retailing.
I can see absolutely nothing wrong with option ‘c’.
Smile
Sox
I agree. The other dealer blew it for not stocking the product!!IMHO it is part of good customer service to have a healthy back stock.
Ordering an item when someone decides to give you money is a crappy way to do business. And if this is a regularly stocked item, the dealer should better manage his stock.
Ok, it may not be the dealer's fault sometimes its the manufacturers, but seems like the 2nd dealer didn't have any trouble getting the item.
I gotta ask: What do you do for a living?A and B means I shop elsewhere and C means you’d probably already be out of business so it’s not a choice.
I didn’t know they have Socialist Stereo Stores that share the profit from a sale.
What could be possibly wrong with the customer wanting the item now and buying it from where ever he wants?
Mitch
"What could be possibly wrong with the customer wanting the item now and buying it from where ever he wants?"What's wrong with it? Making one camp work for the sale and then walking across the street (or going online) instead of waiting a few weeks or just to save a couple of bucks?
If someone spends time with me, and goes through the trouble of a demo, I don't say "Thanks" and then shop around for the lowest price (or buy online).
It's a far better practice to get price and available quickly over the phone and make a short list of dealers. If price is your concern, get your demo done at the store with the lowest cost. If quality demos and service are worth a few extra dollars, then go THERE for your demos but don't give them the "I'll think about it" routine only to walk across the street to save $10. That's the kind of thing these dealers are complaining about. I think going to a brick and mortar store for demos and then buying online is no better than buying a suit for a date and returning it the next day.
Some people just have no integrity I guess. I'm not even a store owner and that attitude ticks me off.
Although sometimes it just works out that one has no choice but to take their business elsewhere, I think saleguys DO end up doing the selling for another camp or an online store more than they'd like to.
I think the salesman/customer relationship requires some respect and understanding (and a little loyalty) from both sides. It's pretty obvious. No matter WHO you are (seller or buyer) you catch more flies with honey...
I'm not saying not to shop around, or stay out of shops if you're just browsing or just want to talk audio. I'm just saying for people to use their heads, and in most cases if you show a shop owner that you respect his time as you would want him to repsect yours, he'll be really appreciative of your consideration.
"Hey, you know - I'm really just looking arond today - go help that guy that just came in... I'll come in on a weekday and we can chat some more then."
Respect is a two-way street. Sometimes customers think otherwise, but it only works against them in the long run.
Cheers,
Presto
I've been in similar (though not identical) situations, sometimes as dealer #1 and sometimes as dealer #2.The win-win is for the dealer with the item to complete the transaction and then the two dealers split the profit. Both have contributed to making it happen.
Sort of like when one shark distracts the person while the other tips over his raft. Neither one goes home hungry.
;-)
Duke
When pigs fly.
HowdyAs a customer in approximately the position above, I've bought from a different place than I auditioned but stipulated an amount over the negotiated price to go to the dealer who spent their time and energy on me. Both dealers have treated me very well since and it definitely paid off (tho that wasn't my goal.)
-Ted
I guess that's about how often atmospheric conditions are right for pigflight.Duke
....I'm inclined to think you're the one sharing the profits, not the other way around.
I will not provide proof at this stage, because the theory behind it is proprietry, but I can assure you it does happen.
nt
CLick the picture below to see my system
enjoy the music!
nt
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