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I haven't read much over the past few years about the drawbacks of full-range drivers. There had been discussions about doppler distortion, IM distortion, radiation patterns, etc., in many *forums*, but they seem to have "gone away".Are those topics *real* issues, or were they found to be irrelevant after some reasonable scrutiny?
Follow Ups:
and can run full range without sub or super tweeter,the issues you list are not real problems for fullrange drivers just internet BS.But most full ranges are wide bands with reduce frequincy range at extremes like others posted.The only ones I have heard that can run fullrange are fostex f200a, fe206esr, lowther dx4 ,pm4a the f200a can produce very deep bass but its limited in SPL still will play louder than most would ever need before break up the others need large back horn cabinets to produce bass.A good fullrange can make for a wonderful loudspeaker comes down to taste system etc if they are right for you.
They just don't do everything at the extremes. There is a reason that Lowther doesn't publish response curves for their drivers.BTW, I'm listening to Lowther DX4's as I type this.
The thing they do best, when augmented correctly, is keep the crossover out of the vocal ranges and give great mid-range coherence.
Their high efficiency also matches well with low power SET amps.
Best sound per dollar I've heard?
Madisounds Fostex BK16 kit - killer sound for around $700 - Augmented with a tweeter.
The issues ou mentioned in your post, either are not viable issues or are overwhelmed by the benefits of these units
...for 10 octaves. I think about the best we can hope for is extended-range drivers that get the crossovers OUT of the frequency ranges where fundamentals of lots of instruments and voices lie. I'm using a Sonic Craft 6-1/2" B/MR driver that covers, VERY well, 5-1/2 octaves from around 60Hz to 3KHz, and it requires only 1st-order filtering on the top. WOW does it sound good. The inexpensive Dayton mag.-planar tweeters aren't as good as the SC drivers, and I'll be replacing them soon.
-------------------------------------------------------
Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
"There had been discussions about doppler distortion, IM distortion, radiation patterns, etc., in many *forums*, but they seem to have 'gone away'."I think the interest drifted away from such designs.... I think it's cyclical....
"Are those topics *real* issues, or were they found to be irrelevant after some reasonable scrutiny?"
The Fritz Hemptone Tower speaker uses an 8-inch Hemptone full-range driver, and is in my opinion an extraordinary loudspeaker. It is devoid of the major flaw I've experienced consistently in the past with full-rangers- Midrange congestion.... Or "shout".... The Fritz possesses a sense of dynamic scale and transparency that reminds me of a field-coil speaker. With the Don Allen Cakepan amp, no equalization network or supertweeter is needed, with a presentation that captures the palpability of small ensembles that full-rangers are noted for, but also the complexity and gestalt of large symphonic or big band works, which is normally a weakness of full-range drivers (due to the shout).
The speaker of course exhibits rolled off response off-axis, but I rarely find this objectionable in a full-range driver speaker. For the superior time response IMO more than makes up for that.
Hi, Todd:I found an excellent pdf article about eSpeakers "Vadim" speaker kit using the Hemptone FR8 8" driver.
It discusses design issues and their solutions, choice of materials, fabrication details, performance measurements. Their Vadim kit is a modified version of the "Solo-206" cabinet design by Tony Gee for use with the Fostex FE206E full-range driver. Vadim Boguslavskiy received permission from Tony to use his design and modify it for use with the Hemptone FR8 driver.
Even if you don't purchase this kit, the article is an excellent treatise on back horn loaded enclosure design using full-range drivers.
Hope this helps.
Randy
Hi, Todd:I googled +Hemptone +drivers and found the Hemptone website, they have DIY drivers, and eSpeakers has a Hemptone kit.
Note: They have a new formulation for the cones, called "Hempmatrix", which has smoother frequency response than the previous version.
Audio Note UK is developing new cone formulation for their AN E series speakers incorporating a mixture of hemp and paper, so it looks like hemp cones are worthy of consideration. Peter Qvortrup has been producing great audio gear for years, he knows what sounds good, fer sher.
Note: I'll order an evaluation pair of 8" hemptone drivers, for possible use in my Sonist speakers, which currently use paper cone woofers with accordian surrounds. I'll post listening results after breaking them in and playing a wide variety of music genres on them.
Hope this helps.
Randy
Hi, Todd:I visited the Fritz website, couldn't find the Hemptone Tower. Could you provide the specific URL with the information for this model?
Thanks, Randy
You can email Fritz and get all the info you want, and maybe even some pics.
How's that, soxie?
.
i tried the lowther driver in the bazooka design posted in the bottled head forum. and did not like the sound.i tried the same lowther driver in the ace cabinet and really like it.
if you could get the bass/lower end of the ace cabinet and an on-axis facing driver.
you would really have something then
In my opinion, it's all about tradeoffs.First of all, most of them are really "widerange" rather than truly "fullrange" drivers, so there's a bandwidth tradeoff.
High quality fullrange drivers do some things exremely well, but have their limitations. Most of these limitations are related to excursion.
I presume there are excursion thresholds below which doppler and intermodulation distortion are inaudible, though I don't know what they are. Most fullrange drivers have very small linear xmax (Supravox and the custom driver used by Zu are exceptions), and loud bass-heavy passages that drive the voice coil outside its linear limits will degrade midrange clarity and articulation.
One factor that I don't recall seeing discussed in this context but which I've learned to pay attention to is modulation of the magnetic flux. The permanent magnet field's strength is modulated by the voice coil's induced field, and theoretically a fullrange driver would be the application where flux modulation is most likely to be audible. The best-sounding fullrange drivers I've heard used very expensive magnet assemblies that minimized flux modulation (either alnico or field coil magnets).
Fullrange drivers usually have much more uniform radiation patterns especially through the midrange and lower treble than do typical cone-and-dome speakers. The sweet spot may be smaller, but the timbre is usually more natural.
One hidden advantage of fullrange drivers is that you can use them with some very nice-sounding low powered tube amps. They usually sound their best with low damping factor amplifiers, as this helps warm up the bass a bit.
My first commercial speaker (of my own design) was a fullrange driver augmented by a built-in powered sub (an obvious concession that "widerange" would have been a more accurate description). And I may revisit that format one day - like I said, within their limitations they do some things very well.
Duke
The "meat" of the Esquire (earlier models) and three cousins made by EV was the Wolverine LS-8 twincone FR. The bass was augmented with a proper woofer (EV 12BW, I think) crossed at 200 Hz) and the treble with a T-35 (mebbie a T-35B). In fact, the only mistake EV used was to cross the T-35 in too low (3.5 kHz, IIRC).On the other hand, the Esquires are small, efficient, and sound pretty darn good IMNSHO.
all the best,
mrh
You know I was in a vintage furniture shop the other week and I started to notice the music playing. It sounded really great, so I looked for the speakers. They were a pair of esquires. I thought the sound was REALLY good. Natural, unforced, not boxy at all, very uncolored. I asked about them, but they wouldn't sell them.I figured they had to have a horn mid/treble to have such an open sound. And I'm sure they were being played on a nice old tube receiever or something too.
Borrowed from an eBAY auction :-)
Someday I'll have to drag my pair out and snap a few photos.
all the best,
mrh
TQWT's with 40-1354's (and planar 'supertweeters') and BR's with Fostex FE-207E's. The rest of the time is a pair of Quad ESL-57's.I really like all three, and all three do midrange like nobody's business. The quantity and quality of bass from the meagre little TQWT's is still surprising to me.
I know all of the theoretical arguments, but I like what I hear.
If you're really interested, I can share the ID of some of the speakers I have and seldom listen to, and you can draw your own conclusions. Heck, you can see one of them in the photo I linked to. :-)
all the best,
mrh
I like your tastes. I have the Cain Super Abby (TQWT), Omega Super 3r (BR Fostex 127), Omega A8 (Visaton B200 aperiodic cabinet) and the rest of the time I listen to Maggie 3.6's. Love all their midranges.Is that a Fisher receiver back there? Whatever it is, it's a beauty. Have you ever tried SET's?
Yes, I also have a pair of Bottlehead Paramour SE 2A3's. Good with the Cornwalls.My everyday amp in the living room is an EICO HF-81 that I lovingly rehabilitated. Looks kinda frumpy, sounds dang good.
all the best,
mrh
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