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In Reply to: Re: Audio Note DAC only for tube gear?????? FRUSTRATION. posted by Peter Qvortrup on November 3, 2004 at 03:22:15:
But is there no answer to the impedence mismatch? That product sold for over $AUD3000 new so I find it hard to accept it can only be matched to other AN components, particularly in the light of some other postings here.OK, it uses a tube, but where does this cause gross mismatching? The AN, like all DACs, takes in the digital output from a CDP - very very few of these use tubes and nearly all are solid state. So it must be the output, correct? So how does the analog output from the AN differ from the analog output from any DAC? As far as I understand all feed into a 47k high level input so I cannot see how there is an impedence mismatch.
Not trying to create a war here, just trying to understand what is going on so a more detailed explanation would be appreciated.
I remain perplexed - what are the exact opposite design philosophies you refer to? I have always understood that any quality component is designed to be as neutral as possible and assume the AN was designed this way also.
Yes I could sell it, but will only do this when satisfied it is impossible to use it satisfactorily. If that happens I will not be a fan of AN. But I'm stubborn, so am not opting out yet.
I await your advice with keen interest.
John
Interesting times
Follow Ups:
Dear John,The problem is not between the transport and the DAC, there are no tubes there, the problem is between the output of the DAC and the input of the pre-amplifier.
The DAC One.1x uses a small sub miniature double triode called 6111WA, it is run as an anode follower without feedback, this results in a high output impedance of around 3kOhm.
I know that Plinius say their integrated has an input impedance of 47kOhm, but I think the truth is that it is much lower than that and this is the reason you get the result you describe.
Valves are high impedance voltage amplifiers, transistors are the exact opposite (current amplifiers) and in addition they need corrective measures to provide a linear bandwidth at audio frequencies.
When I speak about opposing philosophies, that is what I am talking about.
Because a core parameter of a valve's behaviour is linearity at audio frequencies, this allows us to design using valves in simple open loop circuitry.
We use transformers to step up or step down impedances and current voltage relationships. We believe that "less is more", so to get the closest facsimile to what is imprinted in the software passing the signal through fewer parts is of primary importance. We choose our circuit solutions and component choices very carefully, based on a well considered evaluation system (Comparison by Contrast), we belong to a minority in this regard.
Plinius, Meridian, Krell and all other semiconductor amplifiers use highly compensated (read here feedback) complex low impedance circuitry, they rely heavily on measurements to ensure "quality".
Just open up the Meridian DAC and compare to the component count in the DAC One.1x Signature and the difference should be obvious.
The question you should ask yourself is, whether the complexity and component count of the semiconductor "school" of design is a better solution than presenting the signal with fewer parts and gain stages.
My contention is that a sure sign of mediocrity is the love for needless complications because if it is complicated it looks "sophisticated", many will disagree with me, but I think the philosophical point is clear.
Like I said in my earlier post, unless you make some major changes to your system, you will never hear what the DAC One.1x Signature is capable of, dozens of customers are presented with conundrum every week, so you are not alone.
Having said that, the new DAC1.1x/II has a much lower output impedance (about 1K) and should work better in your present environment, it also has no analogue filters, which in turn may upset the stability in your Plinius amplifiers as the out of band noise mixes into the feedback loops.
We live in different worlds and mixing products from each more often than not give unpredictable results.
Sincerely,
Peter
*
Interesting times
> > > I remain perplexed - what are the exact opposite design philosophies you refer to? I have always understood that any quality component is designed to be as neutral as possible and assume the AN was designed this way also. < < <If that was true, all gear would sound pretty much the same. There are many different aspects to musical reproduction. Not everyone gives the same aspects the same priority. If you don't like something, just let it go, and move on.
Jack
*I remain perplexed - what are the exact opposite design philosophies you refer to? I have always understood that any quality component is designed to be as neutral as possible and assume the AN was designed this way also.*John,
With all due respects, there are more than one design philosphies to get a satisfying musical playback. ( if there's only one, then why there are so many kits with different voicing? )
No doubt that the AN is a fine component and there must have been a reason you've bought it in the first place. Surely, you must have detected some redeeming quality?
The AN DAC might did not fit your interpretation of the *good* digital playback, but it can satisfy another's.
Move on and follow your gut. Enjoy what you have. At least you found something you really like. ( just don't expect all digital to sound your version of 'good' )
There might be a way you can make the AN to sound to your satisfaction. But I suspect it involves consderable system change and effort. Even then, there's no guarantee it'll make you completely happy.
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