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There are so many better ways to get 1s and 0s through a DAC now, what is the point of using Plexiglas discs?
A few advantages of DAC:
-Space savings. There are storage devices smaller than even one CD that can hold from hundreds to thousands of CDs worth of music. DAC devices themselves are getting to be a fraction of the size of a CD player.
-Greater reliability. There are no wear components(laser, motors, belts, etc) There are no physical discs to get damaged. Even small scratches and dust can degrade the sound. Larger scratches or particles can even cause a dreaded skip.
-More DAC options. Most CD players are limited to a 44/16 DAC. 192/24 and even 32/384 DACs are becoming the standard. While the advantages/ disadvantages of higher resolution audio are still being debated, newer DAC technology will always beat out older DAC technology.
-Convenience. I understand that many people are still stuck in the "physical media is better" paradigm, but what is the advantage really between digging through a stack of discs to find the one you want to hear, dusting it off, inspecting for scratches, inserting it into a player, waiting for it to spin up, and pushing play .vs going to your music directory on your computer monitor, TV, phone, pad, etc. and pushing play on anything from a single track to your entire collection?
Follow Ups:
I got rid of vinyl. Cd is more then relevant for me anyway.
after all of these decades Vinyl, has never gone away, neither will the CD!
I look at the endless variety of new ways to play music and think: "I sure as Hell do not need that crap"..
After reading about plenty of horror stories of lost music, failure to transfer music already paid for.. etc. I see no reason whatsoever to buy into the pseudo-biss of streaming or whatever.
I own several CD players, and they all sill work fine. Plus thousands of LPs and three TTs And if I had a thou to spend, I sure would rather blow it on a ne cartridge than some new music delivery system
I'll keep the fixed media. And ignore the endlessly changing world of music by computer.
Luddite? Hell yes.
I'm a fellow Luddite and proud of it, but I gotta tell you, streaming Spotify from the 'Net is a beautiful thing. It has enhanced my Luddite ways by allowing me to listen to music on Spotify and then decide if I like it enough to buy on CD/LP. It's also great for discovering new music, both by artists I never heard as well finding out about albums released by artists I like that I didn't know about. Plus if the wife wants to hear something I can play it for her. It's like I have a lot more music available for our enjoyment.Then there's the ability to just let it play when we entertain or I'm watching football. It's a great way to improve the whole audio and musical experience.
Best regards, Ralph
Edits: 09/13/16
Paying for the extreme quality? It used to be 320K Ogg Vorbis. Pretty good for compressed audio but not as good as CDs.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Actually, my stepson gifted me a subscription to Spotify Premium. He got a family plan that allowed him to give me one account. Supposedly the best sound quality they have.
You're right. It's definitely not as good as a CD, but it is acceptable for casual listening. It's better than I expected, I can actually enjoy the tunes. As you might expect, the better the recording, the better the sound.
Best regards, Ralph
I totally agree ! --- With Spotify and my Other Streaming services, I never even listen to my 5,000+ Albums anymore. Heck, they are already on Spotify anyway, so why bother?
All my Music comes from the cloud these days. And I've got a lot of extra money for wine. :-)
Cut-Throat
Some high end NOS Dacs need a transport. The Wavelength Crimson USB Dac is one exception. There are probably others.
I've picked up a lot of great CDs cheap from "cutting edge, discs are for Ludites" folks like you.
Thanks!
Best regards, Ralph
have recently been dropping to half that price as stock increases at many places.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I've had great luck buying used CDs from Amazon. They have all been in the condition they claim. All of them. Some for as low as a penny plus shipping and handling.I keep my CDs in alphabetical order, so I can play a CD in a few seconds more than a digital file. Spotify is a great way to check out albums in my system for free, then I can buy the ones I really like on CD. Plus I can set Spotify to play for hours of uninterrupted music when we entertain or when I watch football. It's like having a server without having to spend hours ripping CDs.
I may be a Luddite, but I use streaming to enhance my musical enjoyment. Audio is my oyster. :-)
Best regards, Ralph
Edits: 09/12/16
discs are for Ludites" folks like you.
discs remain the primary source for music available today. I buy lots of content used quite inexpensively and really couldn't care less about the condition of the jewel case.
Then I choose to immediately rip and store the content in a central library accessible by all my systems via streaming devices.
Brand new CDs can usually be purchased for less than a CD quality download, if it exists. If the record labels would just offer a lossless 16/44 download in a standard format (FLAC, AIFF, WAV) for the same or less than what the CD sells for on Amazon, they would make me happier and make more money.
...they would make me happier and make more money.
The cost of manufacturing, distributing, carrying inventory and writing off dead stock significant. Apple, Amazon, et. al. learned to avoid all of that years ago.
" If the record labels would just offer a lossless 16/44 download in a standard format (FLAC, AIFF, WAV) for the same or less than what the CD sells for on Amazon, they would make me happier and make more money."
It would make me happy too. But the major record companies don't want to add overhead by servicing and running a retail operation. Those that do offer downloads mostly appear keep it simple by offering a restricted catalogue and MP3.
I think that the record companies are realising that digital distribution offers them a way of getting rid of their manufacturing and physical distribution arms. Digital distribution can be outsourced to partner companies. That leaves the record companies with head office functions only ( A&R, marketing, copyright management and legal services). But income can remain similar with lower overheads. Nice (for them).
One other difficulty with record companies running the store is that the consumer has to know which label which artist appears on to get to the transaction. In the early days of digital distribution ideas were floated of forming industry gateways to aggregate access to all of the industry's online catalogue. This was abandoned when it was realised that it could result in anti-trust litigation.
can be seamlessly played in sequence with either higher or lower rez titles.
I still print out all of my email.
.
Says it all, as far as taking you seriously.But then I'm an open reel tape nut. Worse, I have a lot of 78 rpm records.
Oh, and my CD/SACD player (ModWright/Oppo 105) uses TUBES, and the best-sounding output tubes (6SN7) I own date from the 1950s :-)
Edits: 09/12/16
.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
They are relevant to me. The fact that they are becoming irrelevant to the rest of the world is of little consequence to me. It just means I can get the players and the discs for cheap!
Dave
Of course, I have to admit that I've still got a couple of universal players myself. And with "only" 2172 CD's ripped to to my shared RAID drive(s) at this point - about 2/3 of my collection - I foresee disc players in my future for a couple more years yet. ;-)
I mean how could a Horseless carriage possibly replace a Real Horse?
Cut-Throat
I quickly embraced MP3 and later AAC music files and enjoyed compiling all of my CDs many years ago., but as my iTunes collections exceeds 500 albums, I am finding it difficult to locate the music I wish to play as I have to scroll endlessly to locate them which is taking the fun out of listening to music..
I have three CD Transports with vintage PHILIPS CDM1 and CDM4 Professional mechanisms that can play dusty and scratched discs so I am not concerned about reliability as compared with today's transports.
t.
Hi, Jay,I'm assuming that your post is rhetorical and meant to start a discussion so here's my take on your premise...
All physical media, including wax cylinders, shellac 78's, 7-inch 45's, and 8-track tapes are relevant because they have that "je ne sais quoi" that can make the listening experience so enjoyable. Music isn't necessarily about convenience or resolution; by playing physical media there is a direct and timely connection to the recording, mastering, and production of the artist's work. Granted, I wouldn't want to own a wax cylinder player or 8-track tape player to listen to recordings from that era but I do enjoy listening to them on vinyl and CD.
Taking the time to sit down to a home concert by playing a CD can provide a more satisfying experience than pressing a button on a music server. For some people. It's not so much that listening to music stored on a HDD or SSD isn't satisfying, but if the listener enjoys the experience (ritual?) of handling a record or CD or tape then it is very relevant, regardless of the perceived hassles of that media. My CDs are carefully stored and kept clean (stored alphabetically) so your hassle factors don't apply to me. I can easily locate the music I want to hear, don't have to clean my CDs and never worry about scratches.
I own a Rega Apollo CDP and one of the reasons I purchased it was that it was a top-loader and I enjoy lifting the lid and placing a CD on the spindle, much like I enjoy lifting the dust cover on my turntable and placing a record on the platter. I enjoy looking through my CD collection, selecting a concert to play, and looking at the cover art and reading the liner notes. The additional time it takes to put the CD in the CDP and return to my chair is part of that experience. I consider it similar to finding my seat at a concert and waiting for the show to begin.
I guess it boils down to this: Relevance is relative. It really is about the music, regardless of how you decide to hear it played.
Regards,
Tom
Edits: 09/11/16
And that's really all I care about.
I used to get worried about falling behind in the tech race, and being "slaved" to an "obsolete" technology, but I've got so much music on CD and SACD, and am constantly amazed at how good it can sound, that I no longer sweat it.
"Life is like Sanskrit read to a pony." --Lou Reed
All my digital music is on hard drives and flash drives. It's so much more convenient. I have an Oppo BDP-105D universal digital player, so I still have a capability to play CDs, but rarely do I have the opportunity.
Absolutely!!!!
I've yet to listen to server-based audio that I thought was comparable to good CD playback.
I'll continue to wait for 5 or 10 more years before I get into downloads. It will probably take at least that long to get all of the bugs worked out.
In the meantime, I'll not let those lasers and discs go to waste.
One wonders if a person values something in the 'cloud' that you can't touch or see, eliminating two of the vital human senses, as much as something that is in your hand and in front of your face? I find CDs(and LPs) relevant.
One wonders if a person values something in the 'cloud' that you can't touch or see...
Don't know about you, but I can both see and touch the drives found in my server. :)
but not what I mean and you know it. Please reply with at least a logical idea with some logic even if it disagrees with my thoughts. This kind of thing adds nothing to a discussion.
don't mean much any more. Oh, well...
I'm dead serious about the music appreciation value of server based music.
Erm OK However I've Yet to hear a "puter based setup that outsounds a reasonably good CD based setup.
Regardless of energetic bleats/claims to the contrary.
Possibly/presumably It exists (holy Grail?) Anything is ultimately possible :-)
But in the dozen or so setups of proud owners .. I've heard, not even close.
Please, Spare me the righteous indignation.. it's boring.
"Erm OK However I've Yet to hear a "puter based setup that outsounds a reasonably good CD based setup.
Regardless of energetic bleats/claims to the contrary.
Possibly/presumably It exists (holy Grail?) Anything is ultimately possible :-)
But in the dozen or so setups of proud owners .. I've heard, not even close.
Please, Spare me the righteous indignation.. it's boring."
I don't want to start a flaming war, but this seems like really backwards thinking. Why would the technology of reading pits and flats from the shiny surface of a disk to retrieve 1's and 0's developed in the late 70's/ early 80's be so impossible to duplicate using 2016 computer technology?
What you did or didn't hear is these setups may have been due to other differences between your system and theirs, paradigm lock, confirmation bias, or some combination thereof. The statement that a setup that could "outsound" a reasonably good CD based setup would be a "Holy Grail" seems outlandishly close minded given the almost limitless possibilities being offered by transport/ DAC systems that don't happen to glean their 1's and 0's from an aluminum coated piece of plastic.
Thinking long term, I am becoming more against USB solutions. Is there even a generic driver for USB audio?
Once you have toslink or coaxial S/PDIF output, however you get it, SHOULD be fine (although there still appears to be differences).
Through my DAC, CDs played on a Cambridge Audio CXC transport sound better than files.
Edits: 09/10/16 09/10/16
I agree with that and also use a Cambridge CXC Transport into the Yggdrasil.
that's like asking 25 years ago if a turntable is even relevant.
Substitute LPs for CDs as in the subject line and you have the same answer.
How could either NOT be relevant?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
That comparison is used alot, but a CD is a digital medium as is a Hard Drive.... The Turntable is an Analog medium and not equivalent to Digital.
So, Hell No !!
Cut-Throat
existing media. Whether replacing analog (78 RPM, LP, et al) with other analog (tape) or digital (CD)
with digital (DAC, streaming, technical feat du jour), there is no apparent reason to replace a perfectly
good CDP and CD collection with a DAC UNLESS it's for the simple sake of convenience.
There was no reason to replace my LP collection, there is no reason to replace my CD collection, but there
MAY someday be reason to ADD DAC capabilities to the existing sources to keep the music flowing.
That day is not yet in sight.
CD players ARE still relevant.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
The discussion seems to be about replacing existing media with newer...
The key is replacing thousands of 1979 era discs stored away in "jewel cases" when all of that content can be stored in a single place - with any part instantly accessible from multiple systems concurrently?
CD players ARE still relevant.
For as long as existing ones work, sure. Good luck finding new stock of any quality.
"Good luck finding new stock of any quality."
OK, here's a sample of currently available CDPs from just three retailers...
Music Direct
Audio Advisor
Elusive Disc
As to the wishful demise of CDs and CDPs, Mark Twain's reply to his departure is similarly appropriate: "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." :-)
Regards,
Tom
major transport manufacturers like Philips, Pioneer and Teac have already phased out production of many models. Audio Research cannot get replacements for units they've incorporated in the past.
The biggest limitations with CD players is - well CD resolution! I'm happy to have a growing number of higher resolution titles.
The clock is clearly ticking out...
The answer to this depends on how high your "PC Audio" knowledge is !If you are a "plug & play" type of person then you may very well get better SQ results using a high quality CD player signal path. I don't see it being a forgone conclusion that using a random PC path to a random DAC is necessarily going to "Trump"(Go Donald,go) the traditional way of listening to digital files.
It comes down to your personal listening standards I suppose. Personally I've found using a USB DAC to be an (unnecessary) sonic compromise for the music I listen to.I don't know why anyone would choose to use anything as a player that doesn't give you the option of a digital coaxial(BNC is my preference) at a minimum. (As far as "file resolution" is concerned,I'm finding that how well the files are being played to be a much more important factor;Most people only "think" they know how resolving the music they're listening is according to the stated file size)
Asking "How Relevant" using a CD player is currently still a bit too early. (& this is from someone who hasn't listened to music through a CD
player more than a handful of hours in the last 3yrs or so)
Edits: 09/10/16
As I've said, I don't have a problem with downloads or streaming. I just don't have the time or inclination right now to do it right. As I posted a while back, I've heard streaming demos that sounded like dog shit. Yes, I know it can sound decent but that takes time and energy I don't have at the moment. Perhaps when I retire.
As for SACDs, despite the fact that they and the players are still being made, I guess I should throw then away because someone declared them dead.
FWIW, my SACD player accepts high resolution input so I can expand when I wish.
Jack
Thanks, Jack !You've hit the nail squarely on the head when you mention "Doing it right". I think there's a significant difference to digital done correctly as opposed just depending on the numbers. Resolution goes a lot further then what the raw data tells you there is.
I am "Retired" (I'm still trying to figure out exactly "What the Hell" that means;If it means I have even less "Disposeable Income" than I had when I was working then I'm "getting it")(I think whoever it was who came up with this term missed their calling in life to seek a career in Comedy)
Edits: 09/10/16
One just has to scan the Computer Audio Asylum to see how much is involved.
Jack
As is sometimes said (but not from myself) "True Dat"Being a "Fellow Audio Component Guy" just remember you want to convert the signal from any USB path it goes through to a path that doesn't pass all the digital jitter through, It's Not Necessary to use this compromised means of moving the signal.
USB DACs are a "PC Guy" thing. Computers are fantastic audio processors but
mediocre Music players due to the fact they're not made to differentiate that playing music & making sound have the exact same requirements.
Edits: 09/12/16
Screw society.
I like to keep things pure and simple so I play whatever is at hand.
Whichever delivers the best sound, I am for!
I can see the advantages of all-digital. Waiting to buy everyone's discarded CD's as I like having the CD and jacket as well.
I find that nothing focuses the attention more than having the CD in hand. Sometimes, all you have is the CD and so you play it.
Sometimes you CANNOT find the CD. The digital library is great for that situation.
Yes, it is an OBSOLETE technology already and I am already embarrassed handling CDs in front of my friends. They forgive me, though, for handling the LPs as they think that is quaint!
I'm just kidding of course! At least you own the very desirable Sony XA-7ES!
Ripping one's CD collection to hard disk or SSD is very straight forward including automated retrieval of metadata including album art. The trick here is to start with your favorite CDs then do a batch at a time rather than looking at it as an insurmountable task. Many album downloads also include a good amount of metadata.
Hard disks do crash but in my experience this happens rarely and it's so simple to setup automated backups. Anyone who complains about crashed disks get their just reward if they ignore the importance of backups.
I still own a CDP but I haven't used it in years. And my ultimate archival backups are my CDs collecting dust in the basement. ;-)
Your first two points are noted. I would like to point out though, that several years ago I tried to rip my CD collection onto a hard drive, and frankly it was more of a PITA than it was worth. I gave up after about 1/3 of the way through. There's also the issue of hard drives crashing.
Your third point may or may not be true. Many CD players have digital inputs that accept higher resolution. Especially SACD players. Also, most have a digital out so one can still get a separate DAC if desired. That said, newer is not always better.
As for convenience, I've addressed that to some degree. I do have to wonder why you have to dust off your discs. Is loading a disc really too much work for you? Very few of mine have scratches, only ones that have been in a slot loader, and I don't do that any more.
I have nothing against streaming, downloading, and hard drives, but they are not for everyone. Perhaps when I retire, and have more time on my hands.
Jack
There's also the issue of hard drives crashing.
there has been the concept of "data backups". :)
Such is quite inexpensive today using USB hard drives and is not a time consuming task when all you have to do is incrementally add what content you've acquired since the last capture.
I maintain several sets.
CDs can break also..... Or even scratch.... Hard Drives are impervious to scratches.
Cut-Throat
....but not breaking.
I have a relatively small collection of around 500 albums in FLAC which I have backed up in 3 different places because hard drives can and do fail over time.
Ripping CDs with Exact Audio Copy is super easy.
SACD and DVD Audio never really caught on the way CD did and are now also irrelevant with the proliferation of high resolution file formats and devices that seamlessly play them.
SACD and DVD Audio never really caught on the way CD did and are now also irrelevant
If you get a PS/3 and easy accessible ISO software, you can rip the former to DSD files. :)
Backups are a part of Digital Media and Disk is Cheap.I have over 4500 Albums stored in FLAC....
Cut-Throat
Edits: 09/10/16
I think it is just f-ing incredible that I can store my entire digital library on a single 256 GB flash drive that set me back fifty bucks.
Back in the early 80's, I was responsible for the daily backup of critical business data to 9.2 megabyte versions of the ubiquitous QIC cartridge that looked like this. We maintained a two week set collection for assured business continuity. :)
I was in "Data Processing" (which is what they used to call it) since 1972. We had Disk Drives with removable Packs 10 inches high and 15 inches in diameter. They held 40K Bytes. We had never even heard of a Meg of Storage, much less a Gig or Terabyte. The Computer had 96K of RAM and it cost a Buck a Byte.
My Music Library is 1.3 Terabytes.
Cut-Throat
" -Greater reliability." I love that optimism. I cannot tell you how many hours I spend each month trying to find out e.g why my DAC suddenly won't lock to the player output from my PC. Or why a file I can see in the database has not loaded into the player or when drives corrupt (happened this afternoon, fortunately fixable) etc, etc.
PC audio certainly has many advantages but round about zero when it comes to information about the music or tracks. Example: friend contacted me during the week confused at a download he was listening to. The music was very enjoyable but the stereo imaging was just weird. He knew that I had the original CD and wondered if that sounded just as strange. I pointed out to him that it was a "live" in studio recording and the session photos in the CD booklet showed why the imaging was weird with the microphones at the side of the band ( by convention) which meant that the bass and drums were situated in front of the (title star player) piano. Neither of which fact could be gathered from the download of course.
I would stick with my SACD transport were it not for the fact that I know that this is the last hurrah for it and that it cannot be replaced. So redbook is computerised just to preserve the transport for SACD duties. The only reason.
" I cannot tell you how many hours I spend each month trying to find out e.g why my DAC suddenly won't lock to the player output from my PC. Or why a file I can see in the database has not loaded into the player or when drives corrupt (happened this afternoon, fortunately fixable) etc, etc. "Wow, I can't explain why you seem to have so many computer audio related problems. You might want to revisit your entire setup. I've been running Mac Mini based computer audio for nearly a decade now, very reliably, and others have had excellent results with PC audio. My Accuphase CDP has sat unused for nearly a decade.
" PC audio certainly has many advantages but round about zero when it comes to information about the music or tracks. "
Really? All of my CD rips automagically retrieve information on the album, artist, track, and even album art over the internet with no manual intervention. Same for my downloads as they all include a good amount of metadata and quality album art. Roon takes that up a to a whole new level.
You gave one very isolated example of a friend not being able to understand why his download sounded weird and that was sufficient to claim that PC audio offers " about zero when it comes to information about the music or tracks "? Come on, that's a very weak argument.
About the only reason why I still have my Accuphase CDP is that it would hardly be worth my time to pack it up and sell it. It's not worth much on the used market. I brought it out recently mainly as a show piece to fill space in my equipment rack. ;-)
Edits: 09/10/16
You may be correct that I could improve my PC audio set up but it is not too unusual and pretty simple conceptually (USB hard drive containing the music library directly into JRiver MC22) using Win 10 OS ( Achilles heel?).
Yes, I too automatically or magically get track title, artist, cover art etc. from (in my case) DBPoweramp when ripping. However much of it is incorrect particularly in respect of classical music which often has the composer and artist confused. I wish that I really owned some of the recordings that it has suggested. Berlioz himself with the LSO playing the Symphonie Fantastique would be a treasure. Pity he died just before sound recording was invented.
Composer information for popular music often requires manual amendment as it does not reflect label copy and thus cannot be validated easily.
Movement titles, keys and tempo markings are more often correct than not although I suspect that for many recordings most of this field has been populated via some kind of publisher's database. This results in incredibly lengthy listings as the work is described not only in respect of its most common form (e.g. orchestral - a recording of which you have ripped), but also for every alternative instrumental combination approved by the composer. This requires manual amendment to become managable when displayed in the player's fields.
The cover art found is , again, pretty good. The main problem for me relates to where cover art used by one country ( usually USA) is supplied instead of that relating to the UK version that I own. Or (more often) where the cover art suggested is from a more recent box set whereas I have the earlier original single CDs. I would not use cover art for a version that I don't have. So I need to scan the CD art in these cases.
However things do get better over time and I have noticed that a far greater proportion of metadata is correct compared to a year or two back.
My point about information was not really concerned with this basic level. I am really speaking of the notes in the CD booklet which may give a background, historical and/or aesthetic, relating to the work concerned. Or information relating to who the producer and balance engineer were. Or when and where the recording was made. Not only is there none of this supplied when ripping or downloading, there aren't fields to display it in the player software (currently).
My biggest negative point with the metadata formats that currently exist is there seems no field for artist information beyond that of the title artist. So e.g. for jazz recordings with different line ups playing on various tracks there is nowhere to capture or display this information ( except via manual workarounds).
But you use Roon which fascinates me. I understand that this does provide some of this missing information. When I looked at their user forum several months ago there were quite a few complaints from classical music users that the promised information could be missing or incorrect. However this was in Roon's early days and maybe you can tell me if things have imptoved.
My main rservation to date about Roon (and the one that stops me subscribing) is that it really appears to have a main function of integrating the user's own collection with tracks chosen from Tidal. I do not subscribe to any streaming service so this isn't of interest. What would be your opinion on using it just for my locally stored music? NB: I don't have a vast collection. About 2-3K CDs ( and SACDs) of which so far around 500 have been ripped
Tom
Yep. But there is a lot of evidence to suggest that CD players will become rare with SACD players more so over the next couple of years. The OEM suppliers to the consumer brands that you and I recognise have either already pulled out of the optical disc world or are now are very limited in what they supply and to whom. Sure there are a few players still coming out but give it 24 months and I believe it will be like trying to buy a floppy disc player now.
So I could just listen to silver disc for the next few years until the optical unit in my player gives up with little chance of a fix. I am preparing for that day by ripping my CDs and preserving the life of my silver disc transport by using it for for SACD only ( forget ripping SACDs - the hurdles are now far too difficult to overcome. The required Sony PS players are now extremely difficult to find).
Hi, PAR,
You don't need a Sony PS player to rip SACDs. Here's a thread on how to rip from other players, the Oppo BDP-103 and BDP-105 being two of the most popular players:
Ripping SACDs
Post #129 is the most relevant for PC users, #127 for Mac users.
Regards,
Tom
Thanks Tom. That is very interesting. I might give it a go but the thought of buying an Oppo just to do it slows me a bit. I can't think of any other purpose that I would put the Oppo to. But it is certainly a possibility and an advance on the old PS strategy.
Regards
Pete
It's handy when there are babes on the cover.
Too distracting. I wouldn't hear a thing being played. '-)
LOT'S of "manual intervention" required!
OTOH, it's sometimes fun to go back and find the original LP album art to replace the sometimes ill-considered album art on a given CD reissue. But it sure is time consuming (not to mention that sometimes one's search for the original album art comes up empty or unusable)! ;-)
I initially thought of Roon as just an 'aggregator' of metadata to enhance your own music library along with Tidal integration. It is much more than that.I do not subscribe to Tidal but I find Roon to be very rich with metadata for my own library that resides on the Mac Mini. I also like the fact that I can quickly and very intuitively navigate my library using the Roon app on my iPad.
I am also able to 'redirect' where the music is to play. For example, I have the Mac Mini in my office directly attached to my DAC so I tell Roon to play through the DAC in my office. If I decide to go down to the basement, I can use the Roon App on the iPad to tell Roon to play to my Sonore microRendu network streamer. Or, I can have it play to the AppleTV box in our family room or the one in the bedroom.
I have very little experience with Classical music so I can't help describe how Roon handles that genre.
There's a lot more to Roon and the best place to come up to speed on it is on their website, or better yet just download it and play with it.
Roon album art view
This is the Mac Mini and DAC in my office. If I want to control my listening setup while in the basement I just take the iPad with me and I can play the music files from Mac Mini in my office and have it stream to the networked microRendu streamer in the basement. The iPad acts as the controller and navigation interface to the music library.
Sonore microRendu network music streamer in the basement system
Edits: 09/11/16
Abe, nice rug. I like the clear stand for the DAC too.I just replaced two tower PCs with an Intel NUC. It runs JRiver MC21 and provides music for 3 rooms. Dragonfly Red is visible behind the NUC. The actual music files are on a QNap NAS but they could be stored inside the NUC.
my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/
Edits: 09/12/16
Nice setup! Which NUC do you have, if you recall? There are so many variations available. I haven't researched them much but I'm curious to know what the most 'powerful' version is w/o the need for a fan.
It's an Intel Skylake generation i5 with 2 memory slots, an m.2 SSD slot and a cage for a 2.5" 7mm thickness SATA drive.
It does have a fan but changing to a quiet fan operation profile in the Biosonly takes a couple of seconds. With that setting, the fan runs very rarely in normal use and when it does, I am not conscious of it for awhile. A simpler, easier, cheaper and more mainstream solution than putting a NUC board into a fanless case.
The rest of the spec:
- 2 by 8GByte ram kit
- Samsung 1 TB m.2 SSD
- Windows 10 Pro (OEM)
I chose an m.2 SSD to leave the SATA drive position open for more storage if needed. However, music and photos are now on a QNap NAS so I may never need more than 1TB of storage.
I carried over a Dell 24" monitor, a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse and an Audioengine AW1 wireless DAC.
Performance is quite snappy. I am not conscious of any lags relative to the previous Sandy Bridge i5 desktop with SSD boot drive.
I had intended to replace the dedicated MusicPC with a JRiver Id (atom based Intel NUC with Linux and JRiver installed.) However, I decided to try moving the MusicPC function onto my personal NUC. I haven't found any downside in terms of sound quality or functionality.
I am well into replacing all the computer and audio gear. So far I've replaced the WiFi router/firewall, 2 DACs, 2 PCs and a bunch of cables of various sorts. Parts for my wife's NUC are arriving today so I'll replace her desktop next week.
Still to be replaced: powered speakers in our home office, active 3 way speakers in our library and the TV.
I've been interested in good audio for about 50 years and am happy to do my own research and thinking. Quite different choices now from those I made ~10 years ago when I first went to computer audio.
my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the detailed response. Nice!
Where did you get that acrylic shelf that your Mytek DAC sits on? I could use one for my Raspberry Pi.
Cut-Throat
Try this one from OWC:
The Newer Technology NuStand mini
It's a plastic picture or nicnack stand/easel. I think my wife got it at an arts & crafts store called Michael's. I've seen similar items at places like Target.The other stands that I like are from:
Anker
iClever
You can search Amazon.com for "Anker stand" or "iClever stand", or a broader search on "smartphone stand", "tablet stand", "iPhone stand", or "iPad stand".
Edits: 09/12/16
Looks Great !
Cut-Throat
Nice looking setup! I like the acrylic on acrylic.Is the Raspberry Pi up and running and streaming over your network?
Edits: 09/14/16
Yes, with the PiCorePlayer, it is about a 10 minute job..... A lot easier when I configured a Pi about 4 years ago......I am pretty sure the New Pi is my main streamer now, running LMS. I guess you could say it's my 'Main Squeeze' now! :-)
Cut-Throat
Edits: 09/14/16
Just got back from Michael's and Target.. They don't carry anything like that...If you get a chance, ask your wife where she picked it up...Thanks.Also, How thick is the Acrylic Material on the shelf you have?
Cut-Throat
Edits: 09/12/16
Sorry you struck out on the picture stand / easel. It's a pretty common item. Another source for little boxes and stands is the Container Store or possibly Bed Bath and Beyond if you have those in your area.That thick acrylic stand that fits the Mac Mini below it came from MacSales.com. See the link below.
NewerTech NuStand Mini. Monitor Riser designed for the Apple Mac mini. $25
Edits: 09/12/16
I saw a lot of Acrylic Risers on-line, but most were very small for jewelry etc. Most were only 1/8 thick and pretty flimsy....And most all were the wrong dimensions. The one that you have is the perfect dimensions for me.
Cut-Throat
nt
Cut-Throat
Abe, that is a really useful response for which I thank you. I think that I must give Roon a trial. I was impressed by one of their screenshots of a classical album page which actually showed notes about the piece recorded and not just the composer.
Unfortunately the price is now comparatively steep for us in the UK due to the drop in the value of the pound v. USD. When I looked when Roon was introduced I thought OK but it is now 90 gbp per annum. The value of this to me would have to be created entirely from the improved information available as I have no use for the multizone/play point feature nor integration with Tidal. In my small place if I want to hear music in another room I just leave the door open :-). So if I do trial it then it has to be very hot indeed to open my wallet.
I do get the feeling from their webpages that the design of Roon is ideally for viewing on a big wide screen. My dedicated music PC is a 13" laptop which I chose for size and weight as it sits on top of my CD transport (neither switched on in tandem of course). This is too small I think for the standard Roon view. In fact it is too small for me whatever I have displayed on it as I losing my sight as I get older. But I see that you run it in a headless configuration with an i-pad for control. Once again Roon impresses me by having an Android remote app that I can use on my phone and tablet. I can get closer to these screens than the PC and more or less see what is happening. I hope that the screen design for these devices is as impressive as the full screens shown on the website. Only one way to find out, install it (once I have got my head aroubd the price).
NB: I love those acrylic supports that you have for your DAC and the Sonore.
I wanted to mention that Roon works great on a 13" screen. The screen on my iPad Mini is only 7.9". I played with Roon on my 13" MacBook Pro laptop and there's plenty of screen real estate. There's a setting in Roon that allows you to show fewer albums so the size of each album on-screen is larger, or you can set it to to show more.
Unable to connect to DAC? Data corruption? Huh? I've never experience either in twenty years' of computer use.
Periodically, however, I need to power cycle my three access points used for bedroom (largely video) and garage access. The main system is hardwired so it always works.
nt
Cut-Throat
Some folks like handling physical media and going through the ritual of cleaning each one and/or using platter mats in the process.
To those, however, who want to spend more time listening than shuffling disks in and out of jewel cases and into transports, no.
I migrated to a music server in 2009 and cannot imagine turning back. Every system (along with phone/pad) has immediate access to all the centralized content. And I'm an old boomer. :)
I'm a Boomer. I still like a CD transport.
Actually just marginally pre-Baby Boom, but I had all my CDs scanned to computer files by about 2008. Today with a new CD I scan first then listen to the computer file.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
I made mention of generation because I think the far more prevalent case for guys like us is to be computer and/or network adverse and continue to cling to Reagan era technology.
I get what the Millennials already know. :)
That I play the few,SACDs and DVD Audio discs.
I left CD players because of reliability issues mainly.
Edits: 09/10/16
The best are sacd players.
I sold all of my CD players about 4 years ago. I've still got a DVD player, if someone comes over with a CD, but I have not used that in a couple years.Cut-Throat
Edits: 09/10/16
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