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In Reply to: RE: Has anyone compared the Sony HAPZ1 to the Marantz NA11S1 posted by navman on September 08, 2014 at 19:00:40
I thought the Marantz was around $4000, Sony $2000.
Do you use the Remastering Engine?
That seemed to put the Sony over the top in some reviews.
Follow Ups:
You're right about the price differential.
I used the remastering engine of the Sony.
My hope was that the Sony would outperform the Marantz.
On the other hand Im having a hard time saying which one is better to my ears. And i wonder how much is subjective. Hence the question if someone else have heard both these units and could shed what their experience was.
navman
You did say you switched off the "DSEE" engine,right ? That engine will most likely degrade the sound of our "Big Boy" uncompressed music files.
The thing you have to consider is that DSD & PCM handle transients (where one note stops & another starts & the associated intensity of these notes)
differently.I think DSD has a greater scale of these microdynamic shadings.It may not be as much that the sound is a bit "mushy" as much as PCM has no choice of how it presents the sound.(so everything may appear to be more immediate
As I don't think A/B comparisons do much more than confuse our "Aural Memory" a bit more because we're much more familiar with how the non-DSD
Remastered files sound. I think it makes more sense to listen to whole "blocks" of the same music to see if that works any better.
Yes, only you can decide which musical presentation works better for you
Im trying the "blocks" of music vs teh quick AB as ive found teh quick AB comparason never works especially with digital components....
navman
Or Soft. That's kind of a Red Flag, that the Marantz is giving finer Resolution,
which, in a Perfectly Ordered World, ( such as Ours ),
The Mararntz at twice the price should offer something that the Sony can't.
Could only be 5 or 10% better, but you can't live without it when you gpt back to the other Player.
Get some DSD Files, they might make things more obvious to you, one way or the other.
Keep us posted!!!
It's interesting to say the least. The demo unit I have had the auto sound volume left on. I switched that off and that helped. Also switched off the DEEE which is for mp3 and the like. Im listening to the Sony with its DSD upsampling on, as that is its biggest selling point.
navman
Edits: 09/09/14
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I would say after tonights listening, there is just something "right" about the Marantz's sound that the Sony doesn't get. The Sony is wonderful. And the differences are minor. But something about the Marantz is touch less artificial just more "there" in my system. And maybe thats just it, in my system the Marantz has an edge. A bit more weight. A touch less "hi-fi" sound.The Sony is a great bargain: It far supersedes the Cary tube DAC I tried some months ago, and sounds extremely musical. It is easy to use and the remote function via iPhone or iPad (or I suppose any android device) is a pleasure.
I'm still on the fence regarding staying with the Marantz: plus attached Mac Mini and its tethered hard drive vs the convenience of an all in one player like the Sony. This is after all my secondary system. But that urge to squeeze out the best sound I can get vs a modicum of practicality rages on inside!!!! :)
If the Sony had a digital out, this whole issue would be moot. But I think any buyer of the Sony wouldn't be disappointed. Its a great device.
navman
Edits: 09/09/14 09/09/14
It's more than the Marantz, but if you can see getting that one, maybe the PS Audio isn't much more of a stretch $-wise.
I had the Perfectwave DAC and ran into the issue that a particular firmware upgrade wouldnt work with some boards. There was evenually a fix but the hassle wasnt cool in an item of that price.
That is what would keep me away from the PS Audio for now. OTOH I got a deal on the Marantz, so the jump to the PS Audio is more than what it may seem.
Having said that I woudl like to listen to the new PS Audio.
navman
What file types / resolutions were you testing?
navman
My understanding is that the Marantz is a Network Audio Player with no HDD of its own. I'm curious to know where your music files are located for your testing? Were they on a NAS, computer drive within a PC/Mac on the network, external USB HDD?
Does the Marantz recognize the iTunes music library hierarchy, meta data, and album art?
I had the Sony HAP-S1 which is the 'mid-fi' little brother to the HAP-Z1ES. With the HAP-S1 built-in integrated amp, I thought it sounded very good. I would have kept it but I disliked having to load my music to it's HDD via Ethernet. Once loaded, managing the content from the Sony app or front panel was a contortionist exercise, IMHO. I believe the HAP-Z1ES is managed in the same way.
I'm wondering if I'm a better candidate for the Marantz.
Can you comment on some of my questions above? Thanks!
I haven't used the Marantz with a NAS. Its weakness is that it doesn't recognize AIFF files (and most of my collection is. I don't think I have the patience to convert them all to FLAC.I run the Mac Mini connected to the Marantz by USB cable. Audirvana is the engine running the data rather than iTunes itself.
As i play with the Sony i find that controlling it with my iPhone quite a decent experience. With my Mac Mini setup i usually access another computer to pick what I want to listen to.
navman
Edits: 09/09/14
Ah, so you are using the Marantz as a DAC via USB.
As i play with the Sony i find that controlling it with my iPhone quite a decent experience
I found this to be true when I had the Sony HAP-S1. Basic control for navigating the library via iPhone or iPad was good. However, managing the Library was another matter. It felt constrained, tedious, and in some cases impossible.
I had some issues with duplicates and album art not matching the album. Several 2-disc albums would appear with the correct art for the 1st disc and totally random picture for the 2nd disc. I also had several artists all showing up with Tom Petty album art, and a couple other similar examples. There was no easy way that I was aware of to fix these issues on the Sony.
The album art on the Mac Mini was fine. I think it was a database related issue within the Sony, and possibly Gracenote. I even tried resetting everything to factory default with no content then reloaded the Library again. Same problem.
Otherwise, I loved the sound of the Sony. I just wish they would fix some of the bugs in their software. This was back in June 2014.
If these issues have been fixed, I might try the higher-end HAP-Z1ES. The Marantz is a no go for me after learning from you that it does not support AIFF. Thanks.
No doubt that other companies are starting to come online w/ these types of products. Marantz & Sony are the beginning...
One Inmate did it, but didn't say What it did.
The Marantz is most probably Fantastic!
JA compared the Marantz to the MSB Diamond DAC which is high praise indeed!I was just thinking.......... the Sony has a FPGA DAC so theoretically its sound could improve with firmware upgrades.
navman
Edits: 09/09/14
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