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68.46.3.150
It turns out the Bifrost sounds a lot better than I thought it did ! The only problem is I like it a bit more than the 2x as expensive DAC I replaced it with !
I had originally put about 150 hrs of play time on it & the treble response seemed to have an 'edge' to it that didn't seem to be opening up as much as I would,ve thought it would . So I ordered my current DAC , which did seem to 'open up' in a shorter amt. of time.
Curiosity got the better of me & I decided to give the Bifrost another go .
I do have to admit that I changed a few things around this time. First , I decided to use the JPS Labs AC-X power chord & Harmonic Technologies "Digital Copper" coaxial S/PDIF cable I'd been using w/ my current DAC. (I suppose the Bifrost isn't as cost effective using this configuration, but I already had these items)
As it turns out, the AKM chip is' nt nearly as 'evil' as I thought it to be. This little DAC sounds a lot better than I thought it ever could. I think I have to agree with their philosophy about not implementing up sampling as the sound appears to be a bit more "organic" than the same music up sampled.
Who would've thunk it ? I'm definitely intrigued as to what the Schiit Gungnir will bring to table ( It could turn out to be a nice pairing w / my Auraliti PK100 ; when that finally shows up)
Follow Ups:
I own a Bifrost and a PS PWD Mk II. The PWD is better but the Bifrost sounds surprisingly close to the PWD. The Bifrost impresses more at its price point than the PWD. I wrote up a review of my impressions of the Bifrost here, I'll have to do the same with the PWD (using the Bifrost as contrast).
The Bifrost really deserves all the hype it gets, it is a really nice sounding $400 DAC.
With the Bifrost sounding so good, for such a reasonable price, I wonder if the Gungnir will really be that much better?
Can it be worth waiting for and paying extra for?
I'd imagine if you have a system with balanced interconnects as an option, it will definitely be better. From the description that seems to be the main improvement they are pushing - and given the bump in price for it - I'd think that would account for the extra circuitry and power supply needed for balanced operation.
Of course, the proof is in the pudding - it is a larger box, so there might be more isolation.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
With Mike Moffat behind it it just might be. While the Bifrost is pretty nice it might benefit from a slightly more "tweaked" analog section .To my way of thinking the Gungnir is still in the " reasonable" price range .
Edits: 06/07/12
My Bifrost is currently my best source. I have not listened to vinyl since I got it. It's the first time that I really heard music from digital. But, while it never emits bad sounds, and I could go indefinitely with this, I have a feeling that my main system can put out more at the very top and bottom of the frequency spectrum than I get from the Bifrost.
When I tried the Bifrost feeding both my secondary and tertiary systems, the difference that it made there surprised me. It became a must-have for there, but rather than get a second one, I am looking forward to more extended frequency response, etc. of the Gungir if I can afford it. I expect it to be more suited to my main system. In my secondary (& tertiary and quaternary systems, all using the same source,) system this would be overkill.
I purchased this DAC because it was a sound design on paper..... Running it from the PC, not much to complain about sonically.
Add another +1 to the Bifrost from me. I don't have experience with high $$$ DACs (or high $$$ electronics of other sorts) but I think I've found a setup which is pretty clear through and through for not much $: Bifrost -> PS Audio Trio C-100.
I had my BiFrost modified a few months ago and WOW! what a difference. I upgrade the regulator to the DAC with a belleson power regulator. Definitely worth the money.
Could you describe the differences you're hearing?
Also, I found the Belleson web page, and discovered many variations on this circuit. Which version did you use? Was it a "simple" modification? Or is it pretty involved? Etc...
I agree that (to my limited knowledge) it looks like a sound design. Also the designers are people who should know what they are doing.
"Running it from the PC, not much to complain about sonically."
Having read you posts, I take that as strong praise.
Dave
Todd,,, you purchased a DAC " because it was a sound design on paper ", Is it not difficult to find synergy between components based on that method?
I guess I'm still in the old school that makes purchases based on sound quality. I still vividly recall the Phase Linear scandal, where they designed a state of the art amp with textbook measurements but it sounded awful to all that heard it, nearly put them under.
Regards
"Todd,,, you purchased a DAC " because it was a sound design on paper ", Is it not difficult to find synergy between components based on that method?"
Look at the alternative, if you have to start by ordering unheard would you choose something that, based on the best data available, appeared to be poorly designed and implemented?
Synergy is about dealing with all those unspecified and possibly uncontrolled variables which can still affect your sound. It's existence simply means that the components of a home audio system are inadequately characterized and controlled, it doesn't mean that worse measurements mean better sound.
I have been contemplating that very DAC for the same reasons as Todd. The Specs. look good, the layout and packaging look reasonable and the designers have a history of doing a good job on these sorts of products. And most importantly, users like it.
Buying audio gear is always a bit of a crapshoot, but having the perverse belief that good Specs. mean bad sound is playing with the dice weighted against you.
Regards, Rick
But in the end if you had to make a choice between what tested good or what sounds good which would you choose?
It's never a crap shoot when you bring it home and put it through the paces for a few days.
I've written marketing spec sheets for computer network products and I know how the spec sheet game is played... :-)
It is possible to read a spec sheet and reach a bunch of conclusions, not just about a product, but also the company that is selling it. One can tell, for example, whether the spec sheets were written by the designers or the marketing department. In some cases, one can see that they are written by the designers and are still BS, which is the worst possible sign.
In other cases, if one reads the marketing literature, technical white papers, patents, etc., one can see that top rate talent was turned loose and allowed to do its thing. Not the case with some companies, where the talent is kept in line by the bean counters. I am reminded of a favorite restaurant where the food was always better on the nights when the owner was out of town and the chef did his own thing. Drinks at the bar were more generous as well.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
"nothing to complain about" is putting it very mildly to say the least !
How many audio purchases ,for this amt of $$, can you think of are legitimate contenders of much more serious like components ?
( With all the interest I've generated in the Bifrost thread, I wonder if I can get some kind of discount on the Gungnir when it becomes available ; just kidding, but it would be nice , hehe)
pretty incredible..
Of course the analog output stage is critical, as is the PS, - but still...
An incredible price point for those DACs...
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"It turns out the Bifrost sounds a lot better than I thought it did ! The only problem is I like it a bit more than the 2x as expensive DAC I replaced it with !"
What 2x as expensive DAC did your Bifrost replace ?
It's the Brittish DAC that is using Burr Brown chips (not Wolfson, as incorrectly stated in the Audio Advisor description of the DACs features , along with an incorrect outdated picture of DACs faceplate displaying the incoming sample rates) (I was worried that it was using Wolfsons , I found out on the manf. website it wasn't)The first sample rate is not 32khz on the current DACs it is 44.1 & there is also an led for 176.4
The funny thing is I may change my mind once I've switched my source to an Auraliti PK100
I purposely hold on to my components for a little while after I've switched to a different configuration.Now if that " Money Tree " I planted out back would start growing I'd be in great shape !!
Edits: 06/05/12
"It's the Brittish DAC that is using Burr Brown chips (not Wolfson, as incorrectly stated in the Audio Advisor description of the DACs features , along with an incorrect outdated picture of DACs faceplate displaying the incoming sample rates) (I was worried that it was using Wolfsons , I found out on the manf. website it wasn't)"
==================================
Why not just say it was an Arcam rDac...not exactly 2x the cost.
================
Posted by steveassante@comcast.net (A) on December 6, 2011 at 14:19:14
In Reply to: Arcam rDac....No love? posted by Lewis Moon on December 6, 2011 at 07:13:32:
I've had the rDAC in my system now for about 2 weeks now.
=====================
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Mainly, because it is not an Arcam rDac. ( I actually do have that one also & I believe it does use a Wolfson chip.). If memory serves me correct the rDAC is only about $129 more & is not quite as good as the Musical Fidelity M1 I was using.I really did'nt want to come out & name it as I still think the MF is a pretty good product. If the up sampling could be disabled I think it might trump the Bifrost.
Edits: 06/05/12
Interesting you should say that (the bit quoted in my subject line), because for DACs like that, the upsampling by default is considered a "feature"--essential to both the concept/engineering of the DAC itself, and the marketing strategy. Simply imagining that part of the DAC vanquished, how can you then speculate with regards to the end result?
Edits: 06/05/12 06/05/12
"Upsampling", which is 16/44 to 24/96 (or 24/192) sample rate conversion, is a "feature" in name only....... It serves no benefit from a technical standpoint. And I personally think it degrades signal fidelity.
One thing that I like about the Bifrost is that it's the most direct DAC that I've heard; no messing w/ the digital signal. A CD scratch sounds much like a record scratch amazingly, compared to the ones that save up the data then let out a screech. I think that this makes it much more analog-sounding.
I figure that if the designer gives you different settings to try for better sound, then they really have not done a good job as far as what I'm looking for.
Now that I think about it the Burr Brown chip they selected for this particular DAC circuit may not have the same strengths as some of the earlier BB chips used in non up sampling designs.
Sloppy thinking on my part I guess ! ( Good thing I'm not building & selling DACs huh ?)
nt
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
For several months now, I've been reading all sorts of good things about the Bifrost, so when I recently decided to give another DAC a try, it would be a Bifrost. It's only been four days, and already, I'm hearing great potential. I'm so pleased in fact, that I've already ordered a second Bifrost, and it's supposed to arrive tomorrow. Both my computer and main music systems should be happy! (even happier after many, many more hours of "break in", apparently). :)
I have one too. Works great.
I don't have any high-end DACs to compare it with, but it's clearly clearer and better than the ones I compared it to (Audinst HUD-MX1, AudioGD NFB-12).
The USB driver software is lame and lousy---obviously written by the Asian OEM hardware manufacturer(*), but once you get it installed and finally understand how to turn OFF all ****ing useless DSP etc, it works fine.
(*) All software written by Eastern HW manufacturers makes Microsoft look like geniuses.
You really owe it to yourself to go out and listen to every DAC you can in your price range. Listening to others is a path to eventual failure.
I'm not saying that the Bifrost is an "End of your search for an Audiophile DAC" by any means ! But I would be truly shocked if there is another DAC this "well balanced" for anywhere near it's price !
As I mentioned the Gungnir may turn out to be "very competitive" with much higher priced DACs
No, I owe it to myself to get outside and paddle my kayak today. :)
I quoted your second sentence in my subject line because I found it interesting. ;)
Hey, if I find something I am happy with, I stop an enjoy it for a while. I don't need to have that certainty that it is absolutely the best out there. for example, if a restaurant severs me a good burrito, I don't need to try every burrito in town before I can let myself enjoy it.
Dave
+1
Yes - enjoy the moment. Don't worry about what else is out there - if but for a bit.
For what its worth - the Bifrost is a great DAC and could easily find a home in all but the highest end systems. In my book, you don't start significantly outperforming it until you reach the Ayre QB-9 / Wavelength / Weiss / Berekely Audio level or higher - and then to extract the best out of it, you really need fairly resolving electronics (though I have found you will hear a big difference on less spendy solutions - it just won't be the last few ounces of performance - and given how often digital stuff changes - it might be better to wait happily until you can extract enough of it to feel you get your money's worth ?
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
That is a lofty group! I have actually been considering getting one. I usually by vintage, but it is hard to find a really good sounding vintage CD players. A lot of them have very nice transports though. You also never see any DACs in the thrift stores!
Plus I have a Radio Shack HD tuner that has a digital out. It is supposed to benefit greatly with a DAC. Trust me, there is a lot of room for improvement!
Dave
This is one of those hobbies with a lot of "the crazy you get from too much choice", (from Barangrill by Joni Mitchell). I'm pleased and satisfied with my Bifrost and will just try to stay sane for a while.
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