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In Reply to: RE: Our D&D video is now online... posted by Doug Schneider on April 01, 2020 at 08:04:29
I've been aware of DSP-controlled speaker systems but the Wavelet correction approach is unique from what I've read and that's how I interpreted Mr. Atkinson's comment. Do you know of other systems that incorporate Mr. Bohner's Wavelet analysis?
Follow Ups:
Legacy Audio has used this system for quite a while.
I remember reading about the Wavelet processor, but it was being used with the Legacy V speakers and they cost far more than my budget could handle. I now see that Legacy offers a Wavelet processor for non-Legacy speakers. And found this review:
Home Theater Hi-Fi - Legacy Audio Wavelet Review
So the Eikon Image1 is somewhat unique in that it incorporates on-board amplification? I'm wondering then, why such glowing enthusiasm for the Image1? I wouldn't think it was the amplification alone that sets it apart. If Bohner's Wavelet technology can be applied to most speaker designs, granted with variable success depending on speaker inputs, why isn't the Wavelet processor getting more attention?
Hi,
I would say that the praise for the Eikon is partly for the concept but also for the sound. At the Florida Audio Expo this year, I had to chance to listen to the system at length and really liked what I heard. I thought it was one of the best-sounding systems there. See the link below.
That said, from what I can tell, their technology is not radically new, nor are they doing things others aren't. That's no to downplay them as much as it is to put it into perspective. In the audiophile world, Dutch & Dutch, Kii Audio, and others, are all doing some very interesting things, but this is all based on technologies that have been coming to fruition for many years now.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!
The system is focussed primarily on correction in the time domain rather than the more usual correction in the amplitude domain. Here's a link to the underlying technology.
I've been reading through the articles at the Bohmer Audio website and also the manual on Legacy's Wavelet processor and thinking it would be a fun project to experiment using the processor with multiple speakers and subwoofers to create a rudimentary Wavelet-corrected speaker system. Obviously it wouldn't be anywhere near the quality of sound of the Legacy V or Eikon Image1 speakers but I think it would hint at the possibilities.
Hi Kal,
Interesting. I hadn't realized that's the room-correction system they're using. What I can't help but wonder, though, is how similar it is to the RoomPerfect system, which is apparently time-based and bent on correcting room-effects only and leaving the response of the speakers alone.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!
My experience with RoomPerfect was dire but perhaps I was unlucky. I had a loan Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 amplifier that I was hoping would offer good things, specially as it included RoomPerfect. It was pretty good as an amp without RP engaged, but after running the microphone procedure a few times, I found the resultant effect was that the life was sucked out of the music. A weedy sound seriously lacking in bass.My next amp may be a NAD M33 when it's released and this has Dirac. I'm somewhat sceptical of all these "room correction" systems, but I'll certainly give Dirac a chance to convince me. Apart from RoomPerfect, I've used a Micromega amp with MARS (this did make a small improvement with its properly calibrated mic) and Martin Logan 13A speakers with their included Anthem system (not convincing).
I wonder whether these room correction systems will lead to poorly designed speakers. A lazy manufacturer (or one without a big R&D budget) may think that as long as every frequency can be reproduced by one of the drivers he includes, why bother to even attempt to design the cabinet, crossover circuit, etc to achieve a linear result? Leave all this to DSP and this will not only resolve shortcomings of the speakers, but also the room. Job done with no real effort by the designer. I'm not suggesting that respected present-day speaker makers will do this, but it may offer opportunities for building "good sounding" speakers that are basically crap and totally dependent on DSP to sound anything other than dreadful. Discuss!
Edits: 04/09/20
Conversely, it may be that speaker designers, when freed from the constraints of passive speaker boxes and crossovers, might come up with a totally new approach that sounds even better.
Tom
I did not know that the RoomPerfect system is more "time-based" than other systems as, I think, it is an outgrowth of the old Tact system. It uses somewhat random spatial sampling that, all by itself, biases it towards dealing with the space and less so the speaker. One samples randomly until the system gains sufficient "room knowledge" although it often helps to measure a few boundary positions.
Hi,
I'm not sure it's currently based on the Tact work. Last November, when I sat down for coffee with Peter Lyngdorf, he told me that in the early 2000s, he scrapped all the room-correction work they had done up till then, hired 30 developers, and rebuilt the software with what he referred to as a "time based" correction approach, which they weren't using before. Now, whether this "time based" approach is the same or even similar, I have no idea -- lots of people call different aspects of audio "time based." But this is to say, I don't think it's an outgrowth of the Tact system anymore.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!
I have heard that but not seen any evidence yet.
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