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In Reply to: RE: Indeed posted by Des on January 27, 2017 at 16:36:15
You also get a good does of pomposity, self righteousness, and utter wind-baggery.
A precious golden eared blow hard. Who by the way, while spouting on about ethics, is a consultant to high end audio manufacturers.
When the whole lot is put out to pasture, things can progress.
Edits: 01/27/17Follow Ups:
Moving on from the preposterous notions of "golden ears", snuffing out the arrogance and pomposity, freeing us from the notion that audio components are anything but electronic conduits, they have no personalities, they are not musical instruments..and assigning mythical characteristics to them is provides power to these reviewers who crown them selves.
Moving on from the notion that EVERYTHING makes a difference...
Oh, and the end of normalizing an excuse making for absurd pricing.
Not everything makes a difference but there are perhaps several reasons why a person hears several items as sounding the same. Many products are for example designed very similarly and many also buy off the shelf parts. So when people were screaming that CD players sounded the same - well it may be true. Both makers buy the same DAC chip from Burr brown and they buy the same Sony transport mechanism and it would not be too terribly surprising that the two units sound very much the same especially if they are both building to a price point limiting all the other parts used in the given CD players.
Plus, if we assume that most items have a sound of some sort - that component is placed in various systems. It may yield a minor shift to almost no shift in sound against a given component but put in my system it may yield a substantial difference (good or bad) simply from a synergy perspective.
For instance in one system going from a Bryston to a Rotel may be negligible but in a different set-up it could be rather noticeable indeed. I remember comparing two $500 ish integrated SS amps on one set of speakers - meh - choose the one with the most features and the longest warranty who cares - they virtually sounded the same. But those two amps on a different more full range speaker and one of the two amps sounded virtually broken in comparison. Two budget amps both get great reviews and eesh. One really stood out above the other. On the other pair of speakers they practically sounded the same - perhaps because the speaker was the weak link.
I don't really believe in the notion of golden ears either because if this were truly the case a lot more ears would agree on what is the best of the best. And they don't. It is hubris to believe that everyone who doesn't agree with you on what the best is is tone deaf. Two people can listen to a Tupac song or Wagner and listen to it on the best system and walk away with totally different reactions. They heard the exact same piece of music and one person loves it and the other doesn't.
Part of it is based on your upbringing, your language, etc. Why a person can listen to 6 straight hours of pounding heavy metal while another has to shut it off within 30 seconds or have a week long headache.
It's the same with speakers - does one prefer a tonality rich speaker or a speaker with less of that but has better spatial cues. Cohesiveness versus dynamics - and when listening to the same music across these speakers you can get a sense of which speaker/system is treating the music - what does your ear take as the reference points.
A CD player may have a very tiny difference over another but that tiny difference in the long run may be all the difference in nuance between making a Sade just a hair too much sibilant. And that is the difference on wanting to play an album all the way or turning the stereo off after 15 minutes. In a stress test blind test even a golden ear may and likely will fail - but after 3 months there is just "something" not "quite right" about it and you wind up unsatisfied.
Ok , so no golden ears for you , no problem. Arrogance and pomposity obtained , next ..? Just raise your prices...
So, someone who hears/listens better than you is automatically pompous and arrogant? Of course they might not hear/listen better than you...but probably they do and that is why they became critics.
"audio components are anything but electronic conduits, they have no personalities, they are not musical instruments..and assigning mythical characteristics "
Complete straw-man argument. I seriously doubt most see hifi as having personalities, being musical instruments or having mythical characteristics. Since that is probably 99% untrue we can safely say you are attacking someone who basically doesn't exist.
What is absurd is that you think because you don't hear things that others must be as limited as you.
Oh, and to a person with the right sensitivity, nearly everything does make a difference sonically.
...the flat-earthers said when they put Galileo in prison.
Where do you think all of the descriptive language used by audiophiles comes from?
Insightful reviewers like HP, JGH and even Colloms.
Every component has a sonic signature, or personality, since there is no such thing as a straight wire with gain.
Every component changes the audio signal.
And everything does make a difference - some people just don't have the learned critical listening skills to identify it.
It doesn't take Golden Ears.
You're 100% correct mkuller, it doesn't take " golden-ears " to hear what Isaak apparently cannot hear. All it takes is:
-- an open mind.
-- a person willing to explain what to listen to & for.
-- the time to practice listening.
-- (possibly) a better audio system.
If you're not tone deaf. I personally believe anyone can learn to listen for the differences you believe only the " golden-eared " can hear Isaak!
I'm listening to: Magic Fingers by Chuck Loeb & Andy LaVerne
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
if he doesn't perceive any audible "personalities" with various audio components, there's really nothing more he will understand. :)
Sorry you feel that way!
My apologies for polluting your thread--
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