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In Reply to: RE: Hmmmmmm.....I read JA's review posted by Ross on December 13, 2016 at 20:04:27
It's the worst measurements i have ever seen on any product, anywhere, if these are indeed good sounding speakers, then we can all throw away the science, all testing rigs and less stick to mind numbing absolute Sound reviews only.
SMH
Edits: 12/15/16Follow Ups:
They don't look so good in JA's standard suite of measurements, but the in-room frequency response measurement looks pretty respectable considering it's Art's room. Except in the top octave.
Their in-room response is compared with the Wilson Duette, and the Wilson looks worse everywhere except the top and bottom octaves. Art's Devore O/96 also looks worse except in the top octave.
I'm curious to know what it is about Art's room that gives every loudspeaker a humpback whale in-room response curve. And how does he manage to listen around it.
I have also noticed that speakers measured in JA's room tend to measure very closely to each other, with only minor variations and consistent HF rolloff.
Yet most of them sound quite different to the ear.
Interesting.
In Actuality the WA and LM are not really that close and will sound differently if you look at the braodband difference , john is using alot of smoothing . Looking at the impedance and sensitivity differences between them also tells me they would sound very different and require a much different approach when selecting amplification for best results, producing a different perspective all together ...
The LM will produce good jump ( better) on selective recordings .....
Regards
John's editorial responsibility is to explain what he measures , to gloss over such egregious measurements without a proper explanation is beyond the pale IMO.Subjectively liking the sonics of a product is one thing, there is a product for everyone's taste , maybe this product is an enigma, but by not calling it for what it is, after measuring, John is playing right into the hands of the misinformed regarding measurements meaning nothing.
For starters, it has a tweeter that doesn't tweet, A discontinuity between drivers (no coherency) and limited bass ( timbre).
I guess if it was for grammatical errors or wrong font size, SP would be blasted and John scalded :)
"Conclusions
I could live with the Hommage Cinema's low frequencies, even though they're not in the same class as those offered by speakers from Magico, Wilson, or YGA; but, unlike Art, I couldn't live with that lack of top-octave energy." - JAUnderstatement of the year .... The imp/phase graph is one for the ages thou ....
Edits: 12/16/16
The near field pseudo-anechoic measurements are pretty awful. The woofer frequency responses in Figure 2 look pretty bad, and that tweeter really should have a HPF on it. But I think it's a futile exercise trying to coherently sum the near field responses of a couple of horns and a couple of dynamic drivers, so I don't think Figure 3 says much at all. Same for Figure 7, because the relative arrival times are very different in the near field vs. the far field.
With a loudspeaker like this, I'm more interested in how everything comes together (or not) in the far field. And from approximately 60 Hz to 8 KHz, the in-room measurements look better than many others in Art's room.
Lol., respectable , steady as she goes dave .... :)
Oh no another audiophile who believes measurements & specs tell the absolute truth about an audio component's sound. IMHO reviews done by subjectivist audiophiles such as Harry Pearson, Art Dudley and/or Anthony Cordesman are some of the most accurate descriptions of what an audio component will sound like when you go and listen to it. They are certainly more accurate than any review I've ever read from any of the measurements & specs reviewers such as Julian Hirsch, Tom Nosaine and/or Peter Aczel.
A.Wayne, I have a 40W/ch, 845-based, integrated, SET amp that I'll guarantee you two things about it:
1) It won't measure as well as 99.9% of solid-state gear.
2) It will sound better ---{ by "better" I mean it sounds more like a live, unamplified sax, piano, drum, guitar, singer etc. would sound }--- than 99.9% of solid-state gear.
Don't forget the quote used in this same issue of Stereophile that JA's review came from: " Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. " With audio it would be better stated as " Not everything that matters can be measured, and not everything that can be measured matters. " Truer words in audio have never been spoken.
Now go back and read Art Dudley's review of the exact same speakers JA just reviewed in Stereophile. After you've done that, try and listen to the speakers they both reviewed. If you ever do get a chance to hear those speakers, PLEASE come back and create a post telling us which review you believe more accurately described the sound of those speakers you heard, ok? Good luck and good listening to you...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers
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