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In Reply to: M. Fremer on "Digital disaster", suggestion to Stereophile posted by KlausR. on November 11, 2005 at 23:55:29:
"The writer should hurry though, since the competent vinyl guys are leaving vinyl-city one by one."Klaus
I guess that is all of the Tower Records and Virgin Megastores in Southern California again have vinyl sections that have more than doubled in size in the last year...
I'm really sorry you're so insecure about your preference. Maybe if enough people agree with you the validation will allow you to not worry about it for a day or two...
eso
Follow Ups:
> I'm really sorry you're so insecure about your preference. Maybe if
> enough people agree with you the validation will allow you to not worry
> about it for a day or two...
This is something that has been puzzling me for a while: why those
like Klaus R who support digital media and diss LPs are so
_defensive_.
Why does it matter to Klaus R _at all_ if Mikey Fremer likes and
promotes vinyl? Why does it matter _at all_ to Klaus R if a growing
number of people like listening to LPs? Neither threatens him in any
way. He should be more concerned about the restrictive practises of
Sony et al, regarding DRM on his preferrred music medium.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
i think its fundumental human nature to want to support ones own choice. one wants to see more support for the medium one uses as this will continue the supply of products and places that supply products, and new products, and in general others who use theproduct or medium. since vinyl is such a small percent of the general public's medium, we feel a need to fight all the stronger being a mere 1%? yes in audio circles vinyl is rather common but as we all know most "normal" people it is not at all. although now at least the normal people dont think we (vinyl) are not nuts now that the media has given vinyl some room. any nitch always supports its own, i think.
In general you are reading more carefully what's written in messages posted here. Where do I diss vinyl? Where do I say that CD is my preferred medium? I made a suggestion because the technical aspects of vinyl may interest the (your) readership, given the fact that interest in vinyl is generally rising.When your magazine writes enthusiastic reviews about under-engineered but over-priced speakers it doesn't threaten me either. However I consider that being dishonest to the reader and think such attitude deserves a comment. That's what Critic's Corner is meant for, isn't it?
As regards copy protection, why does Sony et al. use such methods? You should blame the end-user, not those who defend their legal rights. I agree that this DRM stuff is not exactly ideal and Sony is going probably too far, but were there no people STEALING intellectual property there would be no need to take such drastic measures. Artists like Robbie Williams don't bother if there's a couple of thousand CDs more or less sold, they have a solid contract with the producer. Young artists just getting off the blocks, however, do bother when too many people just copy their music instead of buying it. Shop lifters, pick pockets, burglars are prosecuted, copying music is strictly on the same line, it is NOT respecting the rights of others.
Klaus
The problem is that simply by playing their discs in your computer you are deemed guilty and then the fun starts. If someone else committs a crime I really do not want to be punished, nor should I be. The fact that Sony is so sneaky about it is puzzeling from a marketing perspective. If they spent as much time marketing new and better products that we might want to buy their time would be better spent. The threads I'm reading about repair issues from TX are most troubling. Someone behind a mohogany desk is not doing their job. Bad news travels even faster.
One opinion over another. Once you got to the "dishonest" part you lost credibility. You may not agree or like the product, but to say that someone is lying, that is a very bad thing.
I agree with the principle of protecting intellectual property. When someone borrows a CD from the local library or from a friend, he then finds that he likes it and makes a digital copy instead of buying that CD, he is are stealing.Sony apparently bases their method on he assumption that when someone places a CD in a computer it's to make a copy. In view of the fact that there are 650 million (or more) CD players out there they might have a good reason for that assumption.
Of course the fact that simply playing the CD on a computer installs the software of that computer also affects those who, being absolutely in their right, want to make a copy of their own CD for their personal use like car or holiday home.
So the principle of protecting is ok, that method is bad.
Klaus
"I made a suggestion because the technical aspects of vinyl may interest the (your) readership, given the fact that interest in vinyl is generally rising.""The writer should hurry though, since the competent vinyl guys are leaving vinyl-city one by one."
Which one is it? Leaving "vinyl-city" one by one or interest in vinyl is generally rising? You seem to contradict yourself here.
Perhaps the reason no one had written in-depth critical papers on the limitations of vinyl recently is that the medium is so old and had become the HiFi standard by the mid '50s. I do remember serious debates over reel-to-reel tape vs. vinyl. Reels had far better dynamic range but shorter life due to degradation. Digital being the newer medium it is compared to the standard and not vice-versa.
The reality for me is that HiFi has made very little progress in the last 50 years. In many areas it has gone backwards. Equipment looks much prettier and vast amounts are spend on industrial design and marketing to sell more pretty things to more people. Listen to a really good vintage HiFi and get a better perspective.
eso
yes reel to reel has a sonic advantage too bad it is so rare. i was considering it but the recorded tapes are too hard to find (ones i want). I agree very little progress since the late 50s and in some areas the 30s! think its that the big buck reseach has gone elsewhere. back in the day you had big companies putting big R&D into audio, now its someone in thier garage or basement.
The last technical vinyl related papar in JAES was published in 1986. Huge amounts of dark silence since then. And there are many issues that remain unsolved. Where are the guys capable to write the math which describes distortion generated by line-type styli?Playing vinyl is a dynamic process, the only approach to describe vinyl playback is based on the Hertz equations, which are well suited for static conditions, but not for dynamic. Where's the guy competent and interested enough to develop these equations?
Critical/technical papers have been written, it's the authors of these papers I was thinking of when I said competent. However, these papers were written for experts, not the layman. So the layman doesn't know about slope overload, curvature overlad etc.
Vintage hifi: my turntable, cart and arm were designed in the early 80ies/late 70ies, is that vintage enough?
For electronic components and speakers I think that real progress has been made by the use of digital signal processing. My speakers use DSP extensively, my preamp uses DSP for all control functions. Before you say that digital is bad, remember that many records have been made using DSP only between mike and cutter head.
Klaus
Here is the contradiction:"I made a suggestion because the technical aspects of vinyl may interest the (your) readership, given the fact that interest in vinyl is generally rising."
"The writer should hurry though, since the competent vinyl guys are leaving vinyl-city one by one."
Which one is it? Leaving "vinyl-city" one by one or interest in vinyl is generally rising? You seem to contradict yourself here.
******"Vintage hifi: my turntable, cart and arm were designed in the early 80ies/late 70ies, is that vintage enough?"
You need to go back at listen to State-of-the-art circa 1965 or earlier... Especially the speakers of the '50s and '60s. With the advent of SS and very high power for little money, speaker design stalled out IMO and gave rise to the present monkey coffins with very high compression and boom-sizzle sound.
eso
.
Isn't he pretty much saying that old-hands are leaving while even greater numbers of newbies are coming aboard?
.
Fights among the digital crowd are fierce. I stay out of the fray.Mostly, I have been an analog fan for years. Digital can be made very listenable though.
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