|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
76.195.239.169
In Reply to: RE: Addition By Subtraction........ [yt] posted by Todd Krieger on September 15, 2021 at 14:07:15
1. From your remarks, would it be fair to conclude that you don't consider the conductor to be "worse than most", as some wags have called him?
2. How does the orchestra compare to the Dohnanyi era?
3. Would it be worth it for me to travel from Chicago to Cleveland [by car or plane] to hear the orchestra in Severance Hall?
thx
Follow Ups:
Todd has never heard the Cleveland Orchestra in person since before Severance Hall was renovated during the Dohnanyi era. He apparently bases his opinions on radio broadcasts, a few YouTube clips, and and a couple of bad recordings released early in the FWM period (Beethoven 9 badly recorded, a Wagner disc).
I've been attending Cleveland Orchestra concerts at Severance (and Blossom) since 1976, so I have heard them play in all of the (post-Szell) eras. YES, it is definitely worth the drive here to Cleveland to hear them at Severance Hall. The orchestra's sound has changed during the last few years to be slightly more mellow, but its precision and the way its players listen to each other has not. FWM has become a much more energetic conductor since he's been here.
Todd continually complains about some of the principal woodwind players. I don't hear what he hears. These are wonderful musicians with personality and great tone. And I think the string section has been in excellent condition as long as I've heard the orchestra.
"Todd has never heard the Cleveland Orchestra in person since before Severance Hall was renovated during the Dohnanyi era."
See link.......
"He apparently bases his opinions on radio broadcasts, a few YouTube clips, and and a couple of bad recordings released early in the FWM period (Beethoven 9 badly recorded, a Wagner disc)."
So you're implying that we shouldn't be allowed to make opinions of performances or performers based on broadcasts or recordings?? ...... Do you realize this accounts for over 90 percent of the opinions posted here?
I just hope your response doesn't throw water on Ferrous Oxide's potential trek to Cleveland............
I stand corrected on one point--you heard FWM and Cleveland NINE YEARS AGO. As I've said, FWM's conducting style and the sound of the orchestra have changed in the last few years.
Your ability to hear the orchestra since 2012 has, as far as I can tell, been limited to you tube clips, perhaps PBS shows, and internet radio programs. All of these sources have poor audio quality (e.g., PBS sound is dynamically compressed in the extreme, the internet radio concerts on WCLV or from the orchestra or WCLV website are 128 kbps). I'm not even mentioning the two poor DG recordings with FWM/TCO because every conductor has recorded some duds (e.g., most of the Dohnanyi Mahler recorded in CLE).
And you have denigrated the woodwind playing and string section (prior to Preucil getting canned). Probably the most accurate reproduction of the string section (or part thereof) and winds would be in the Decca recordings of Mozart concerti with Uchida. The performances would have been better had there been a conductor, but they are faithful reproductions of the orchestra at Severance Hall--and I know, because those concerti were recorded live and I was in the hall for several of them. I was also present in the hall at Boulez's last series of performances in Cleveland, which included the Mahler 10 Adagio -- released on DG. Nothing wrong with the string section there...
"As I've said, FWM's conducting style and the sound of the orchestra have changed in the last few years."Maybe he made some adjustments to criticism he was getting......
"Your ability to hear the orchestra since 2012 has, as far as I can tell, been limited to you tube clips, perhaps PBS shows, and internet radio programs. All of these sources have poor audio quality (e.g., PBS sound is dynamically compressed in the extreme, the internet radio concerts on WCLV or from the orchestra or WCLV website are 128 kbps)."
You're probably correct, but you may not realize that the dropoff in bit resolution doesn't impact sound quality as big as you think.....
NPR even has a "test" for this..... And even through a high-resolution headphone rig, I always get at least two of them wrong....... (Although I never got the "classical" clip wrong.)
"I'm not even mentioning the two poor DG recordings with FWM/TCO because every conductor has recorded some duds (e.g., most of the Dohnanyi Mahler recorded in CLE)."
I agree, the Cleveland Orchestra throughout its history hasn't exactly been dealt a great hand when it comes to recordings......
Although I don't think they're bad enough to not critically evaluate the playing...... (If I think the recording is getting in the way of the performance, I won't comment on the performance.... A recent Hybrid SACD/CD of Paavo Jarvi conducting NHK performing Wagner's "Ring Excerpts" is a *horrid* recording.... I cannot even comment on the performance itself on that one.)
"And you have denigrated the woodwind playing and string section (prior to Preucil getting canned)."
Oh well......
"Probably the most accurate reproduction of the string section (or part thereof) and winds would be in the Decca recordings of Mozart concerti with Uchida."
I was never a fan of Uchida..... (You may have noticed that I've never commented on these particular performances. I would have likely done so with a pianist more to my liking.)
"The performances would have been better had there been a conductor,"
Gads..... Uchida conducting the orchestra?
Yuja Wang has also done this..... It was horrible.
"but they are faithful reproductions of the orchestra at Severance Hall--and I know, because those concerti were recorded live and I was in the hall for several of them. I was also present in the hall at Boulez's last series of performances in Cleveland, which included the Mahler 10 Adagio -- released on DG. Nothing wrong with the string section there... "
The Boulez Mahler 10 "Adagio" is on YouTube..... (Not a fan of late Mahler.) But I guess that doesn't count......
Edits: 09/17/21
I guess you didn't see this review.........
"1. From your remarks, would it be fair to conclude that you don't consider the conductor to be 'worse than most', as some wags have called him?"He had a few "good" performances, but I've yet to encounter a "great" one...... Although after hearing the Orchestra in recent time (it sounded solid during the Cleveland Piano Competition), I wonder if former concertmaster William Preucil may have been the problem..... Time will tell.
"2. How does the orchestra compare to the Dohnanyi era?"
The Orchestra actually declined most (no pun) during Dohnanyi..... It's a tough call..... I do prefer Dohnanyi as a conductor, from purely an interpretive perspective...... But as I said, the Orchestra itself could be on the rebound.
"3. Would it be worth it for me to travel from Chicago to Cleveland [by car or plane] to hear the orchestra in Severance Hall?"
Most definitely..... The renovated Severance Hall has gotten rave reviews...... (I was at the pre-renovated Hall numerous times, but not the renovated Hall..... There are a lot of attractions in University Circle, it's not the only act in town. The Cleveland Museums of Art and Natural History are both world-class institutions.) It may not be quite Boston's Symphony Hall acoustically speaking, but I get the impression from concertgoers that it's only one step down. The Hall is a jewel visually, the architecture off the charts, both inside and outside.
It's too early to tell whether the Orchestra will rise back to greatness after the personnel changes..... But I do have a good first-impression of the post-Preucil Orchestra, relative to when he was the concertmaster.
Edits: 09/16/21
I don't know what the restrictions are where you're at, but I get the impression that it will be strict at Severance Hall..... (Based on the videos I've seen.) Pretty sure masks and vaccination cards will be required.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: