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In Reply to: RE: Oh - you mean like with "cancel culture"? There's a thread about that further below! [nt] ;-) posted by Chris from Lafayette on April 16, 2021 at 11:46:28
Are you sure you have a sufficient grasp of HIP's entire universe? It doesn't seem so.
I've listened critically to maybe 80-100 HIP recordings in the last couple of decades, from Machaut to Vaughan Williams.
Some of it I've liked, some I haven't. Some have been interesting duds, some have been boring duds. Some approaches seem clearly misguided, other approaches have saved composers (like Vivaldi) from the dust bin imho. Some instruments I like, some I don't.
I've also collected multiple performances of individual works, such as the Marais Gamba suites, Handel's Fireworks, the Brandenburg's etc. I've just begun to plumb the depths.
Where are you at in this journey? Or does it matter?
My collection of and experience with HIP represents probably less than 1% of what's available so I'm just not yet ready to call the culture police and enact a ban, burn the books, etc.
Follow Ups:
. . . cancel culture and pointing out the absurdities and historical blunders of the HIP movement.Strange, but I suspect that I've listened to at least as many HIP recordings as you have. Maybe I got an earlier start! ;-)
As for knowing the "HIP Universe", I wouldn't know whether I'm better versed on HIPdom than you are. One thing I do suspect however is that I'm better versed on the original sources which supposedly underlie the HIP movement. I still have in my library such works as CPE Bach's Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments , Daniel Gottlob Turk's Klavierschule oder Anweisung zum Klavierspielen fur Lehrer und Lernende mit kritischen Anmerkungen , Quantz's Versuch einer Anweisung die Flote traversiere zu spielen , and others. I'm thinking that that's what drives you and other HIP nut-cases crazy: not only do I abhor certain aspects of HIP, but I hate it intelligently, with a knowledge of the very sources with which HIP academicians and performers justify their perversities.
Furthermore, you've been trying to frame this as all-or-nothing, black/white thinking on my part, but in fact I've carefully selected the aspects of HIP which I object to AND I've provided the historical evidence as to why I object. You can't stand the fact that this disagreement can't be reduced to a question of simple likes and dislikes, and you lack the knowledge yourself to argue from actual evidence.
[Edited to restore the post after the umlauts in the original post crashed our server. They're now left out.]
Edits: 04/16/21 04/17/21
: )So...which aspects do you not object to?
I've simply tried to point out that those aspects,(or rules) supported or unsupported by research, are often adjusted or ignored in the real world, (of HIP). Imho you seem to assume they're followed to a "T" across the spectrum. That's where I believe the Absolutism comes in.
Forgive the edits. I'm poking away at my phone and allowing myself to be distracted while listen to Stravinsky on modern instruments. : )
Edits: 04/16/21 04/16/21
. . . reduced orchestral and choral forces as appropriate (unless it's that one-singer-to-a-part choral singing crap that we sometimes encounter), hard tympani sticks, generally brisk tempos. (Although HIPsters would have us believe that they discovered fast metronome markings! They have to realize that not all modern instrument performances* go at speeds like those which Giulini, Sanderling and Celibidache employed in their later years!)
*i.e., adequate instrument performances! ;-)
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