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In Reply to: RE: It's a good thing Monteverdi, Bach, Mozart and Beethoven didn't know that! nt posted by oldmkvi on April 15, 2021 at 08:51:14
Why do you think the quality of musical instruments has progressed over the years and centuries? Because everyone has been completely satisfied with them to begin with? You don't think today's composers and musicians think all musical instruments as they are are perfect without room for improvement?
Besides, what they knew or did not know has really no relevance to my assertion that the modern piano is simply a superior instrument to any forte piano by every measure. And I am QUITE confident that if they had the choice all of those composers saddled with forte pianos would have chosen to have their music played on modern pianos. I don't know for sure but I think their works are evidence enough of good taste and good judgement.
Follow Ups:
From what I understand, the steel-framed, louder pianos arose from the need to project sound into larger venues. Of course, steel-framed instruments have a much different sound quality, as well. Since we CAN listen to old instruments such as harpsichords and fortepianos, by choice, either in small venues or on recordings, doesn't this allow us to simply enjoy their unique sound characteristics? Sure, they must be in-tune, high quality instruments (either original or modern facsimiles...and well recorded), but they can sound GREAT...and, the main point, DIFFERENT than newer instruments. While I have read that Beethoven wanted more from the keyboard instruments of his time, Beethoven's actual compositions show little compromise, and can be enjoyed on all kinds. I have a few recordings of Bach's Goldberg Variations played on a harp (!) and, honestly, there is much pleasure to be derived by these alien transcriptions. The rest is politics and, to me, the OP/Reviewer was buried in that state of thinking.
That's an awfully nice way of putting it! ;-)
What Beethoven actually SAID was, "the piano [i.e., the pianos of his time!] is and remains an inadequate instrument" - and this was not long before he died. This was a point made by the reviewer in the link in my OP. And in fact, that review, far from being buried in "politics", is well argued and well thought out, with substantial evidence (such as that Beethoven quote) brought to bear for the opinions expressed therein. Below, you say he doesn't know how to think. And yet your own criticisms of the review are mere complaints that his view of things doesn't line up with your own. All that shows is that you're a proponent of "right thinking" (i.e., thinking which reflects your own predispositions) only.
My view of things is that this fetish for listening to "original instruments" and vibratoless (or practically vibratoless) string playing is a kind of perverse enjoyment occasioned by the ennui resulting from not having listened very closely to modern-instrument performances (or, as I like to call them, "adequate-instrument performances"!), so that, with the subtleties of the performances being glossed over in the listening, they all begin to sound the same after awhile. And then these types of listeners NEED the gross differences heard in HIP performances to discern any difference at all! But that's just MY view, resulting from my "intuition and feelings" - LOL!
BTW, have any of you HIP fetishizers here actually heard the album that was under review (i.e., Faust, Melnikov et al do in the Beethoven Triple Concerto and the Ries arrangement of the Second Symphony for piano trio)?
As for the development of the modern piano it was simply a result of competing manufacturers trying to make a better product. And they did. "Since we CAN listen to old instruments such as harpsichords and fortepianos, by choice, either in small venues or on recordings, doesn't this allow us to simply enjoy their unique sound characteristics?" Sure. As Chris has mentioned we can do the same with grade school orchestras. We certainly are free to enjoy whatever we want. But this is not simply about that. If someone enjoys listening to music on inferior instruments as some sort of novelty experience that's fine. But the argument runs towards what is "correct." IMO better is simply better which makes it more correct if we are going to deem something as correct. I have no problem with parents enjoying the scriblings of their young children and haning it on the refridgerator, where it belongs. I enjoy seeing antique forte pianos in museums. But in concert halls they simply suck.
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