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In Reply to: RE: Opinions of the cognoscenti ? posted by LtMandella on January 30, 2021 at 09:16:58
I attended one of the concerts at which the 1st Symphony was recorded. Whether that qualifies me to be numbered among the cognoscenti I will leave to others to determine. I've been listening to this recording today on Spotify, and based on my memory of the live performance, the recording sounds swifter and lighter-textured. In person the music came across as massively powerful, as if a leather-bound copy of War and Peace had been dropped on one's head. The recording sounds OK, but I don't think Verizon Hall is an easy place to record--the sound does seem a bit dry. Still, a worthwhile listening experience. I'll probably buy the CD as a souvenir. Who knows? My reaction may be different when I hear this on my main system.
One other thing about the concert performance: before the music began, Y N-S turned to the audience to inform us that it was being recorded, encouraging us to keep audience noise to a minimum. I was won over; he's extremely personable. I can see why he's well liked by concert audiences.
Follow Ups:
They are inexpensive to produce, but I think they have resulted in a noticeable reduction in listening pleasure. It is but one reason that many of us prefer older recordings made before this trend.1. They are recorded in concert halls that may or may not provide acoustics as good as nearby recording studios.
2. Even where the concert hall is a good recording venue, the hall will almost certainly sound better for recording purposes without an audience. One can, for example, compare the Berlin Philharmonie with and without an audience since they are recording without one for their streaming during the Covid period. Some halls, notably the Concertgebouw, may even need some dampening when the audience is not there.
3. When recording with an audience, the microphones are generally placed very close to the players to minimize audience noise. Hence more and closer multi-miking than is required with an empty auditorium.
The economic considerations of recording seem to weigh more heavily on the Majors than the Minors. That seems to be where we are seeing more "live" recordings.
Edits: 02/02/21
Most (nearly all?) "live" recordings of major orchestras on major labels are recorded over a series of performances, often supplemented by patch sessions. The final release is edited from these various elements. How is that a "live" recording? For this reason, the inclusion of applause in such a recording seems to be something of a cheat. And as Donald Vroon said in American Record Guide, all applause sounds the same, and it never sounds musical. Its inclusion in a recording is a ruinous distraction, at least to me.
And there's always the idiots standing and screaming Bravo! before the music has died down.
When I record I try to cut the applause and patch in some silence where needed.
. . . applause "definition" is a great test of one's system! ;-)
OTOH, I once interviewed Aldo Ciccolini for our local newspaper in Palo Alto. He agreed with you, and he said he hated the whole ritual of applause and bowing to the audience. He claimed that when the last note is over, the pianist's work should be done, and he should just get up and leave the stage in silence, especially since applause breaks the spell. Of course, the peanut gallery would never stand for this! ;-)
Furthermore, he said that a musician should be like a monk, and not get married or have a family or social life. Rather, a musician should be married to the music!
One other tidbit Ciccolini mentioned was that he was scheduled to perform the Busoni Piano Concerto with Furtwangler, but Furtwangler died a few months before that performance was to take place. That performance might have been very interesting if it had occurred.
I saw Garrick Ohlsson play the Busoni a couple of years ago with Cleveland Orchestra; he didn't look any more stressed than someone eating a sandwich. Even the Hamelin video on YouTube shows the pianist looking plenty stressed from time to time.
I wonder if Ciccolini had the technique for the Busoni--I mean I only know his Satie records, and that repertoire surely didn't stretch him that much.
Complete Mozart Sonatas, complete Beethoven Sonatas, complete Debussy piano works, Tchaikovsky Concerto, Albeniz, Granados, Falla, lots of Liszt (my own first exposure to his playing), Chabrier, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Ravel, Saint-Saens, Grieg, and (yes) Busoni (even aside from the Concerto). (And I didn't even mention Satie!)In fact, when I interviewed him, Ciccolini mentioned that he was excited to be recording some of Busoni's solo works (which is how his story about the (non) performance of the Busoni Concerto also came up). Also, it looks like Erato put out a collection of Ciccolini's recordings from 1950 to 1991 this past November - 56 LP's [EDIT: Oops! I meant CD's].
Edits: 02/03/21
A fine musician. My only quibble is that, to me, he made Spanish music sound Italianate (you know, just as Karajan made Prokofiev 5 sound German, as did Pappano with Aida, amazingly enough).
Maybe it's just me?
Jeremy
But one such recording of applause should do.
I notice that sometimes, especially where the endings are not at maximum orchestral force, the conductor will leave his arms in the air as though to lead the audience in silence, and not break the spell, until he lowers his arms.
"I notice that sometimes, especially where the endings are not at maximum orchestral force, the conductor will leave his arms in the air as though to lead the audience in silence, and not break the spell, until he lowers his arms."
And sometimes, even that doesn't deter some of the yahoos in the audience! ;-)
He has to be first! I always listen for him at the end of live recordings. :)
Weissenberg/Ozawa/SFSO doing the Rachmaninoff Third at Flint Center in Cupertino. Some kid a couple of rows in front of me turned around and gave me a dirty look! ;-)
But I've been clean and on the straight and narrow for goin' on 50 years now!
.
I don't remember the quote exactly, but I think Brahms once said that the monks of St. Florian have the transgressions of Bruckner's compositions on their souls!
Nevertheless, there are some "live" recordings which IMHO are amazingly good from an engineering point of view, such as my old stand-by DVD-Audio label, Nishimura, which did a number of outstanding minimally-microphoned in-concert recordings, such as the Mendelssohn Lobgesang Symphony with Marcus Bosch, and "Die Akustik des Leipziger Gewandhauses" (works by Mozart, Boccherini and Mendelssohn) with Morten Schuldt-Jensen and the Leipzig Chamber Orchestra.
"the recording sounds swifter and lighter-textured."
I agree, streamed version sounds a little bass light, not as "weighty" as I would expect.
That's a nice story about YNS :)
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