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In Reply to: RE: Violins posted by George6 on June 21, 2020 at 12:42:01
. . . maybe the various recordings (as heard over your system) are reproducing the live sound fairly faithfully?
Follow Ups:
Just a couple of riffs on the topic:
1. Sometimes recordings were purposely made with too much treble energy. Many years ago I was in the cutting room at Decca and the engineer told me that "we always go for a strong treble cut". Of course many vintage Decca recordings are held up as models. It is worth appreciating that typical home cartridges of the 1950s and early 1960s had responses that rolled off pretty swiftly over 10kHz (as did the microphones). A "strong treble cut" may have made sense in that environment. Personally I now find some of my classic Decca widebands a touch too bright played with a modern cartridge. A touch that I can live with given their other magic.
2. Up until recent years I have always found CD players/ DACS unable to properly resolve the sound of mass violins. Solo violin, fine, many violins with all those overtones more difficult. Some could well hear this as excess brightness.
3. Check the treble responses of a selection of speakers tested in Stereophile over the past years. Surprising how many exhibit a treble rise often <5dB or more above the midrange (if that is used as the datum). This is apparently because having an accentuated treble impresses more in a showroom.
4. Most tweeters sound horrid to start with ;-). I remember Billy Woodman of ATC reported as saying that he hated all tweeters. Took him years to develop his own. My personal dislike of a class of speakers are those with a ribbon tweeter/conventional mid/bass where, in the main, the two just do not blend with the tweeter remaining exposed as a separate entity.
5.Most speakers are not made for listening to classical music. it is a minority interest and therefore need not bother the designer of typical speakers overmuch. Too much treble? Gives a nice sting to the sound of that Fender Telecaster and increases excitement. Sells more.
Me cynical?
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
Not at all. Your points neatly summarize many of the problems associated with listening to recorded classical music.
As to your first point about cartridges from the 50's and 60's having rolled off high-frequency response, I agree, although some cartridges had some pretty noticeable peaks above 10kHz too.
Regarding the sound of massed violins on CD's, I've always felt that that was more a product of the prevailing primitive multi-microphoning done by the major companies of that time. In addition, many of the CD reissues early on were cavalierly managed in the rush to get titles out into the market. My opinion is that, even from the very beginning, there were SOME recordings on CD (and CD players) which dealt well with massed violins - so the negative perceptions had to be caused by other things. (Although I have to say that I've never been very familiar with THAT many CD players on the market at any given time.)
I remember when I was very young in Southern California, stereo was just catching on and my dad was getting his/our very first hi-fi system, he wanted to consult with my piano teacher, who had a big JBL speaker in his mono system. My teacher said that he liked JBL's because they had a "hard, quick, fast" sound, and, sure enough, we ended up with a pair of JBL's ourselves. Later on, when I was reading the hi-fi "pundits" of the day, I discovered that they considered the JBL (or "West Coast") sound more suitable for rock and pop, while classical music would be better served by a more covered (or less "in your face") "East Sound" sound, exemplified by speakers such as those from Acoustic Research. Since the JBL's were my "imprint" speakers, I somehow have always preferred that type of sound, even for classical music, and today, my current speakers have ribbon tweeters and ribbon midranges together with conventional 12" woofers (which BTW crossover at an unusually low Frequency - between 200 and 300 Hz).
As I mentioned before, in my case, the main determinant as to whether I perceive an edgy or bright sound from a given recording on a given system is the the presence (or not!) of an extended bass response.
" As I mentioned before, in my case, the main determinant as to whether I perceive an edgy or bright sound from a given recording on a given system is the the presence (or not!) of an extended bass response."
Yes indeed. And the converse can also be true. Improve the treble response and often one perceives improved bass too.
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
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