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In Reply to: Is Teflon is bad for silver? posted by Psychicanimal on May 13, 2003 at 07:32:44:
Teflon sure isn't cheap as looking at 3/16" sheet 12" x 12" and paid almost $200 for it....
Follow Ups:
Teflon sure isn't cheap as looking at 3/16" sheet 12" x 12" and paid almost $200 for it....Jeeezuz! Who the hell's charging almost $200 for that? You can get 12" x 12" x 3/16" sheets of virgin PTFE Teflon from McMaster-Carr for $39.16 per sheet.
se
Oops, looked closer at the invoice and $42 was material and remainder was for the 96 holes......Normally purchase drops as the local folks just stock 48" x 48" sheets....Teflon sheet is used to mount RCAs on the inside of the chassis...Point is PTFE is expensive....
Oops, looked closer at the invoice and $42 was material and remainder was for the 96 holes......Ok, THAT makes more sense.
Normally purchase drops as the local folks just stock 48" x 48" sheets....
Yup. A 48 x 48 sheet from McMaster drops down to about $28 per square foot.
Teflon sheet is used to mount RCAs on the inside of the chassis...
Ah. Tried wood? I've got good results from all wood chassis using maple for the back panel. In fact I've generally had good results all around using more organic materials. At least where practical. Wood doesn't make for very good heatsinks. :)
Point is PTFE is expensive....
No, it's not cheap compared to other plastics. What's expensive are those damned holes. You're paying $42 per sheet for the Teflon, but over $150 to remove the excess and turn it into Swiss cheese. That's over $1.60 a pop for them damned holes. :)
se
Yep, I have the teflon milled, drilled and tapped as just have .750" holes in the .25" aluminum back panel for RCAs to pop out of so the teflon has to be dead on the money so we run it on a CNC machine....They charge pretty well for that, but that was for three units...You get murdered on tiny runs done right unfortunately...I thought about using the teflon slip washers, but wanted lower capacitance and this teflon trick works great, but is expensive to execute....Oh, stole this from BEAR Labs BTW who had used it on an amplifier....Picture of the teflon and back panel in my gallery....
Yep, I have the teflon milled, drilled and tapped as just have .750" holes in the .25" aluminum back panel for RCAs to pop out of so the teflon has to be dead on the money so we run it on a CNC machine....They charge pretty well for that, but that was for three units...How dead is dead-on? 0.005" is standard with premiums charged for tighter tolerances. 0.005" is about the thickness of a piece of 24 lb. printer paper. You need tighter than 0.005"?
Why don't you just give the machinist some ABS and have them make you a couple of templates, get a router table, a drill press and some taps and do it yourself? You could crank 'em out all day for a fraction of the cost.
Send me a dimensional drawing and I'll make you up some maple ones to try when I get some time. The maple's from 250+ year old old growth trees from the midwest forests and have been sitting at the bottom of the great lakes in an oxygen-free environment for a 100 years or so ("sinkers" that were lost during transportation by logging industry over the years). Pretty cool stuff.
You get murdered on tiny runs done right unfortunately...
Yup. It's all the set-up costs. They don't amortize out too well with small runs.
I thought about using the teflon slip washers, but wanted lower capacitance and this teflon trick works great, but is expensive to execute....
Yup. Though I think you could do it in-house for a lot less in the long run.
Oh, stole this from BEAR Labs BTW who had used it on an amplifier....Picture of the teflon and back panel in my gallery....
Thanks.
se
I use non resonant, Caribbean Moca wood for my transport and DAC bases. Its performance is way superior to Maple--increased clarity, definition and soundstage. It worked really good on my Clear Image T4 quad isolation transformer/filter bay. Unbelievable how vibration affects electricity...
I use non resonant, Caribbean Moca wood for my transport and DAC bases. Its performance is way superior to Maple--increased clarity, definition and soundstage. It worked really good on my Clear Image T4 quad isolation transformer/filter bay. Unbelievable how vibration affects electricity...Nope. Never heard of it.
But the maple I'm talking about ain't exactly the same as the maple most everyone else has used.
First, it's from slow-growing, old-growth trees so the basic cell structure is more dense compared to the fast growing farmed woods today.
Second, sitting at the bottom of a deep lake for nearly 100 years causes anaerobic bacteria (seeing as there's no oxygen down there) to consume much of the material within the cells of the wood. When the wood is dried, the cells remain open so the wood retains all of its primary structural strength but isn't filled with the softer, starchier matter that regular wood is but rather that space is occupied by air.
Here's an electron micrograph of the open cell structure:
This might be why this particular wood seems to (to me anyway) perform so well as a dielectric material. It's like how foaming improves the dielectric properties of other dielectrics by making more of the dielectric's volume air rather than plastic or what have you.
Anyway, all I can say is that it's worked very well for me.
se
I first read about Moca wood in an old US Forest Service Caribbean & Central American hardwoods manual. It said the Moca was used for cabinet shelving for radio & TV equipment, as it is non resonant. The US Forest Service conducts these and other mechanical tests in their wood matrials laboratory. José García lives ten minutes away from an artisanal sawmill in P/Rico whose mgr. was my customer (I used tom sell and sharpen sawblades). The sawmill had the wood and last year I got some boards. I had one board custom made for Sean and because it warped severely it did not fit his rack. Just placing boards below José's components cleaned and opened up the sound in a dramatic way.I am aware of sunken woods--I am a wood freak! I live in Toledo metro, Ohio. Perhaps I could find some of that Maple. The sawmill mgr. told me I could have a Moca tree felled, cut and cured to order if I wish so. I should go back to P/Rico for vacation in the next few months. There is a Moca tree in my mother's backyard, but I'd be disinherited if I chop it!
Dead on isn't that dead on......As I recall my machinist only has a couple machines out of ten that will hold to a thousanth of an inch....If we built more units we could command a better price, but pricing isn't as much of a consideration as getting things done right is much more important....I'm just pleased that the job shop agreed to build essentially jewelry in the first place...Just twenty built in four years....Now old growth maple would be nifty to look at, but just .125" would show around each of the RCAs as need the shielding for the phono stage so the wood would be inside the box screwed to the inside of the back plate via blind threaded holes....Thanks!
Dead on isn't that dead on......As I recall my machinist only has a couple machines out of ten that will hold to a thousanth of an inch....Ah. Then a simple template would be plenty sufficient. The guy who does my laser cutting and engraving would probably be able to do that for you for his set-up charge, which is about $80 if memory serves.
If we built more units we could command a better price, but pricing isn't as much of a consideration as getting things done right is much more important....
Sure. Just saying you could easily get it done right in-house at a minimum expense.
I'm just pleased that the job shop agreed to build essentially jewelry in the first place...Just twenty built in four years....
I've found that it's usually not the job shop that'll turn down the small job (though I've come across one or two who have), it's the customer who chokes when they see what it'll cost 'em. :)
Now old growth maple would be nifty to look at, but just .125" would show around each of the RCAs as need the shielding for the phono stage so the wood would be inside the box screwed to the inside of the back plate via blind threaded holes....
I wasn't recommending it for looks. It actually looks rather plain. Which is why I use regular birdseye maple up front where I want the looks. I was recommending it for its performance as an insulating material.
se
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