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I currently have a NBS Omega IV connected to my Primare Pre30. I'm primarily satisfied since i've only compared with very few others at the same price level. I'm planning to buy another powercord for my Musical Fidelity A300cr, willing to spend about $500. If any of you like to recommend a power conditioner instead, $2000 or less will be my budget ($1500 if i can't use a my Pwr amp with it).Btw i'm new to this forum. I'm William and nice to meet you guys. ^_^'
Follow Ups:
HOW MANY AMPS DOES YOUR AMP SUPPLY.IF IT'S 25A AND UNDER I WOULD RECCOMEND THE MONSTER REFERENCE 2500 POWER CONDITIONER.IT HAS TWO DEDICATED POWER AMP OUTLETS,PREAMP OUTLET,CD OUTLET,ULTRA HIGH CURRENT AND LOW CURRENT OUTLETS,PLUS SEPERATE DIGITAL AND ANALOGUE OUTLETS.IT ONLY COSTS $300.
A few to consider are the David Elrod Power cords as well as the new Shunyata Anaconda.As a dealer, I can say there are many good products out there, but these two are what many of my customers seem to like.
Is the Anaconda available yet? I can`t find it on Shunyatas website.
The Anaconda is currently shipping, but it has not been officially announced as Shunyata wants to be able to keep up with the orders.The demand is already fairly high.
You should get your hands on the March issue of Bound for Sound. Several power cables in a shootout there.
nt
Try Gutwire!
from what I have read (Musical Fidelity) and heard (Gutwire G-clef). I have no direct experience with MF, but have read several posts from users who describe it as having detailed mid and high but lacking in bass authority. For this reason I did not try it when I was looking for an amp, since my SF Signum monitors need as much bass authority as I can feed them.
I have tried a well broken in Gutwire G-Clef, and it has significantly less <100Hz energy than either TG Audio HSRa GenII, or empiricalaudio.com Magnum2, this on both the SS amps I tried it on.Just my experience. Have fun demoing PCs. They are as different as any other component, so make sure to try a few.
Larry Dunn
Larry Dunn
Have you had any experience with the new Gutwire X Clef?
I have been using my MF A300cr for a good 5 months now. I personally think it does have a nice balance between treble, mid/low freq, it sounds very smooth, and with 'rounded edges' and a little too warm. It sounded horrible with it's matching pre A3cr. I ended up buying a Primare Pre30 with a little dryer sound to compensate. When some people say MF has nice detailed mid/hi but lacking bass, i think many of them are refering to their popular A3cr Pre/Pwr combo, which i agree they don't have the grip to deep bass. A few months ago when i spoke to the guy who sold me the NBS Omega IV, he said he'll recommend Gutwire to me for other applications such as using for Pre and CDP. I'll speak to him again soon as see if it's good idea to use my NBS for pwr and Gutwire for pre. Thanks again for the advise.
I just got an EPS 3 to power my Hydra and an EPS 2 for my First Sound Presence Deluxe MKII preamp. I am still in the burn in process,but out of the box they are great. These cords are unbelievable. No coloration. Worth looking into. The Hydra is a great line conditioner. You can find them on AG for $1500. Money well spent.
You might find it helpful.
Regards and welcome,John.
Welcome William:PERSONAL NOTE: I’m sorry I couldn’t continue over at AR. Thanks for asking me to stay. It just gets monotonous after a while. Too bad, because I think there are a lot of good guys there and there are some really good discussions that go on. I think a certain forum culture takes over on any forum and after a while it can really get stifling.
I won’t repeat here in detail my recommendation that you consider trying the TG Audio HSR-A(II) or Silver power cords. One thing though that I would like to clarify. Here you will no doubt hear mention of the Bob Crump DIY design cable (Bob is the owner of TG Audio). I have never heard that DIY cable. However, according to Bob, that design is 20 years old and is not comparable to his current commercial products.
One more thing about Bob. He makes no technical claims for his products. I think I’m correct in saying that he believes that no one really knows why their particular cables sound the way they do. He believes, again I think, that cable design is primarily a process of trial and error. My AR education causes me to appreciate that approach.
My own personal belief is that power line conditioners are the place to start. I think they are capable of filtering out a lot more grunge than power cables normally can. Others may disagree.
I have not heard most of the current favorites of PLCs; however, there are a number of good used ones generally for sale on Agon. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to try before you buy generally.
My Platinum Power PP-1 is so good, I have not been interested in trying others since I got it almost 3 years ago. However, its distribution is extremely limited and it lists for $2500. I don’t know if you could get one for less (maybe a B stock unit) directly from the guy who makes it. If you’re interested, check out: http://tnt-audio.com/accessories/platinum-pp1_e.html.
PS Audio makes a line of power regenerators. They are actually power amps that reproduce a supposedly perfect 60 cycle (or, with an adaptor, or frequencies) wave. They have their own manufacturer forum on this site. I tried their lowest power unit on my front end components and did not care for it. I thought it restricted dynamics. In fact, every PS Audio power product I have tried seemed to restrict dynamics. However, many swear by the products of that company.
The PS Audio power regenerators, because they are an actual amp, are very inefficient and produce a lot of heat. They are also very expensive.
Exact claims to be a power regenerator, and is less expensive. PS Audio disputes Exact’s claim to being a true regenerator. I’ve never tried one and don’t hear much comment on them.
Before the PP-1, I had a Tice IIIC. I believe that Tice is the oldest name in PLC. It was ok, but not on a par with my PP-1. It seemed to add some artifacts in addition to the benefits it produced.
Believe it or not, but Monster gets a lot of good comments on their PLCs and they are reasonably priced. Hopefully, someone here will comment further on the Monster products.
The Shunyata Hydra gets a lot of positive comments here and seems to be appropriate for use with a power amp. However, it seems like there are always a lot for sale on Agon. If you have decided that’s what you want, that’s good. But, I have long wondered why so many always seem to be for sale. Do people tire of them? Also, when they first came out they claimed their effectiveness was due to something they called “Stardust” (wouldn’t mtrycrafts love that). I think they took enough guff about Stardust, that they changed its name to FeCe, which to me is like going from the pan to fire because of the unavoidable comparison to a not-pleasant body product. Maybe enough of mtrycrafts wore off on me that I’m highly skeptical.
Other hot names today are Stealth and Sound Applications. Do a search or maybe someone will comment on these. I know of another promising product that will be coming on the market. In fact, I have a prototype right now. I think, though, it will be priced in the same range as my PP-1. I can’t say more without the developer’s permission.
Finally, Virtual Dynamics (http://virtualdynamics.ca/), a relatively new Canadian company, claims that their cords filter so well that their customers are discarding their PLCs. A search here should turn up a fair number of comments about those cables.
Hope this helps some. Since you are just starting to look at power cables and PLCs, I’ve just tried to give you an overview. Hopefully more knowledgeable people will come along and provide more specific information (if not correct any misinformation I may have given you).
Again, welcome. I think you will find a lot of value here. Also, if you’ve been at AR long enough that you just don’t think you are comfortable without a fair amount of bickering going on, you’ll find plenty of that here too. This particular part of the Asylum does not permit discussion of DBT issues. However, you can always raise that subject at the General Asylum or the Tweaks Asylum. Also, be sure to check out the inmates review section here.
NOTE TO OTHER INMATES: William is a really good guy. Be nice to him.
Allways a ton of Hydras for sale at a-gon? Which site are you going too? I see one pop up every month or so.
Re: "Stardust, that they changed its name to FeCe"Small correction
Regards,
Metralla
Thanks Phil, i've learned a lot. But do you suggest getting a PLC first, and use the standard PC first? Or get it after all PCs are upgraded? Some people said since a poweramp should not be connected to PLCs, is that true? I feel that some products especially cables are developed by 'reverse-engineering' where they keep experementing. When they get a breakthrough, they'll then figure out why that is and back them up with theories and facts, and add refinements.
It's a pain for me to buy decent audio accessories since I spend most of my time in UK. Most brands that i think are good and you guys kindly recommended are not available in here. The other thing is i like to explore different products, so i rarely get two pairs of cables from a single company (except i have two pairs of Ecosse Reference ICs). That's one of the reasons i don't wanna get another NBS PCs.Thanks everyone for welcoming me here. So far i've been participating in a few forums; the Stereo411, Harmonic Discord and AudioReview. Funny enough i feel that no such thing as a perfect forum for everyone. The stereo411 started okay, but slowly turning into a car audio forum, full of innocent rookie audiophiles like me. AudioReview's problem is obvious, DBT...oops! But otherwise not bad at all. Before i joined this forum i use to think that Harmonic Discord is the best since there are many true audiophiles willing to share experiences, a little downside is that many of them are heavily biased to a few 'strange to me' manufacturers, and some 70% of them own at least one pair of Norh speakers. ^_^' I think in a way i cannot survive without any of them because some questions or topics will only be raised by certain forums. In a way i'm a true 'Audio asylum-seeker', i hope this is the right place for me. Thanks Phil again and hope i'll be a true audiophile like you guys ^_^'
I started with the PLC and then focused on power cords, but that may not be the best approach for you. The difficulty you seem to be facing is the ability to try out the product that we might recommend before you buy it. Purchasing a power cable or any component without the benefit of home audition first is extremely problematic. Also, it is true that many PLCs don't have the power or current handling capabilities to work well with amps. My PP-1 does, I believe the Hydra does and there may be a few others that do.I think if I were in your position, which is limited access to US products and looking primarily for a power cord for your amp, I would start by emailing Virtual Dynamics to see about purchasing one of their cables with a money back guaranty. Tell them as much as you can about your system and needs and see what they recommend.
You could also call them. I have done that and they are very willing to help.
The reason I'm suggesting Virtual Dynamics is due to the fact that you don't currently have a PLC and the VD products may be one of the best for running directly from wall to amp.
Of course, I've never heard VD cables, so my advice is of limited value. However, there have been a number of positive comments posted here regarding their power cables.
Back to something I have tried, if there were any way you could obtain a Platinum Power PP-1 to audition and it were in your budget, I strongly suggest you try it. I run monoblock Rowland Twelves, the 400 wpc subwoofer amps of my Vandersteen Fives and all my source equipment off it with stellar results.
I wrote that last response right after I got up this morning. Now that I’ve had a good slug of coffer, I’m going to try for a little more clarity.Logically, it seems to me that only two things can happen to power between the wall and the equipment – either (1) damage (to the power in the cable or to signal in adjacent cables in close proximity) or (2) filtering.
You and I have both been exposed to technical arguments over the type of damage that can occur as a result of power cables and its audibility. Even though my experience tells me that some power cables do less damage than others, I’m not convinced that the yeasayers have made a convincing technical argument that explains why some cables will do less damage than others that leads to sonic differences.
But I think everyone agrees that the power coming into our homes carries with it RFI. There is disagreement over the capacity of our equipment’s power supply to filter out RFI obviating the necessity of further filtering of the line current, but at least there is common agreement that RFI leaking into the signal stage is a bad thing. In addition, most PLCs employ traditional methods for power filtering (transformer, capacitive filter circuits, or both), rather than the voodoo magic that seems to surround the power cord issue. The issue with filtering seems not to be whether it is real, but rather (1) how to do it without creating adverse side effects, such as compression of dynamics, and (2) is filtering of the line current necessary.
My own experience tells me that further filtering of line current beyond what my equipments’ power supplies are capable of produces significant sonic improvements.
Now, as to your situation, you are looking primarily at your power amp. As I previously said, not all PLCs have the capacity to handle power amps. Some people believe you are always better plugging an amp directly into the wall. With my PP-1, I have found that running amps off of my PLC is superior to coming straight out of the wall. However, if I were starting from scratch today, I would probably try a power cable for my amps that claimed effective filtering before going to a PLC for my amps, because this is the simpler circuit for getting power from wall to equipment and there is less chance on inserting additional problems in the process. That is why I’m suggesting you consider trying to audition Virtual Dynamic cables.
Other cables, such as TG Audio cables, may also claim to provide filtering. Since I’m primarily concerned with getting power from my PLC to the equipment I have not really focused much on cable company claims regarding the filtering qualities of their cables.
Since Bob Crump and other cable manufacturers can’t discuss their products here unless someone asks a question, I’ll pose this question to Bob and any other cable manufacturer who cares to respond: do your power cables provide filtering, and if they do, could you explain how they accomplish such filtering?
During my stint at AR, I grew accustomed to peppering my posts with all sorts of disclaimers. So, I include the following disclaimer with this post.
DISCLAIMER: The preceding post was written by a lawyer who, when discussing technical issues, has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Anyone who relies in any way on the foregoing should be committed.
Thanks again, IMO i think the the PS Audio is a little inefficient. But it's widely available both in UK and HK, maybe i'll give that a try. However i'll still get myself a decent PLC even if they're not suitable for amps. I think the front end, CDP, turntable and pre benefit the most from a decent main power. I'd love to try my NBS PC with my amp but sadly it wouldn't fit into it's 16A IEC socket. When i bought my Nordost RED Dawn speaker cables, i asked them if they can custom-make me one for 16A socket, and they refused. My dealer found me a manufacturer that is happy to do one for me, they're not exactly expensive ones (about $300) buti'll give them a try anyway. He also said that there's alternative to PLC, which is using a $500 main distribution device with filters but no caps and transformers. He's still trying it on their system and see i they're worth recommending to me.
The bulk of the filtering is built in the low inductance/highly capacitive wire I have made up, but do use a little network in the IEC to tune the cords differently as respects frequency balance....If you have gotten past the two week suckout on the SLVR cords then I think you will agree that they don't make a mess of dynamics like most all line filters used with large amplifiers....I do think it is possible to build a line filter that will work with amps, but the tough part is breaking the things in as most all amps present a variable draw on the line so at low volumes, in class A, an amp might draw 300 watts and this might go to 800 or 1,000 watts at full tilt on a fast moving peak (I use big amps here too!) and it will sound different and normally less dynamic on the peaks....Sound familiar? So if one believes in state dependent break-in one would need to use 1,000 watts to break in the line filter for thirty days or have problems with dynamics....
but most any cable person can take a wire pair and make it sound almost any way they like by changes in geometry which effect inductance and capacitance....The connectors chosen normally color the sound a bunch more than the wire....The problem is that virtually anything will work for audio frequency wires and the only way to figure out if you are going forwards or backwards is to listen to the end result, take notes and do comparisons.....This doesn't happen overnight as it takes years to refine a design so it really performs.....
nt
Hi,
Try the Eichmann Power Cord! It sounds really great! However, you must be patient because this cable take quite a while to break in.PPT
PP,I agree with you wholeheartedly about the merits of the Eichmann AC Enhancing Cable but my experience is that right out of the box attached to an amplifier the ET pc increases dynamics and dimensionality. I'm glad to know the Eichmann power cord can only get better with age. What traits would you say benefitted by a long break-in period?
Jim
pushpulltriode,
From the small amount of feedback available on these cords, it seems they excell at PRAT and bass frequencies. Would this be a fair charactarizaton? Any more info would be great. Thanks
Jayarr
I had been very happy with my 3 Synergistic Research AC Master Couplers until I A/B'd them with the Eichmanns. MUCH more dynamic (it was as if the Synergistics had been strangling the current), smoother, fuller, more detailed. Major improvement on Plinius SA100/3, smaller but worthwhile improvement on BAT VK-30 pre-amp and Sony SCD-XA777ES (over the Synergistics).
NT
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