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In Reply to: RE: Any Advice for Black Mamba / MPS Hercules Build? posted by Duster on July 24, 2020 at 02:45:31
My intention is to keep my Eclipse 7 from amp to crossover but rewire crossover, crossover to speaker, and inside speaker. Crossover is all solder connections. Crossover to speaker is solder on the crossover end and low mass banana Au over pure Cu jacks and plugs from Audiophonics that I believe do a good job. So will prob pass on the spades.
I will total up what I need and put my order in for the "bell wire" today. And you are saying use the smaller gauge for both tweeter and mids right? You sure this is gonna be an improvement for body/imaging/detail? It looks kinda pre-historic!
Wireworld Eclipse 7 speaker cables along with the Jantzen cables should be impressive. Use the smaller gauge cable for the highs, and the larger gauge cable for the mids and lows.
Keep in mind the Jantzen cables will essentially be serving as an extension of the crossover sections and the internal wiring of the Spendor 100 loudspeakers. Take a look at what they use as internal wiring. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that Spendor loudspeakers sound better with larger gauge internal wiring, I think the solid core Jantzen wire is a safe bet if you seek high-performance spatial cues, while increased body due to larger gauge wiring from a crossover, and for internal wiring is not my idea of improving the application. I'll consider a larger gauge cable to suggest if you would prefer it, Rob.
The NEOTECH NEMOS-5080 OFC Loudspeakers cable 2.10mm² Ø 12.5mm is a wildcard, since I'm not familiar with it, but it does share a similarity with Wireworld speaker cable designs. The results would be more unpredictable than a pair of single round-shaped solid core copper wires for the application.
Thanks Duster -- Jantzen cable ordered!
Any thoughts on the other Viborg AC connectors I sent you links to. In particular the new style Viborg look quite nice and they seem to have the same internals as the aluminum bodied ones. I believe the aluminum shells I have on hand will probably fit.
What do you see as the best leverage points for getting better body/detail/imaging? I think I'm doing pretty good with tubes (Bugle Boy or Tung-Sol 5751 @ the 12AX7s and Brimar "superman" @ the 12AT7s. The added Silmic and Russian caps in the C2200 and Terminator may be holding back detail/imaging, but were a big help with body and tonality.
Adding teflon bypass caps in crossover midrange? (I've resisted using on midrange as they can sound hard, but may be OK when fully burned in.) Going to rhodium binding posts? Using additional Furutech rhodium IEC's?
The Viborg V503 line-up, both the unplated and with the various platings are excellent options if a less expensive polycarbonate shell is preferred vs. an aluminum shell that does provide sonic benefits. The polycarbonate shell of the V503 line-up is the most beautiful plastic shell I've experienced. You might try one of each: unplated, gold plated, and rhodium plated versions and swap-out the Black Mamba V2 power cords on each audio component in order to find the best synergy. I won't second guess the tube rolling in terms of tonality, nor the caps selection. I suggest evaluating the results of the new wiring and power cord upgrade projects, and report back with your findings in the forum, Rob.
I am ordering now and will report back. Thanks so much for all the time you have spent and you much valued advice. You are a great asset to AA!!
Take a look at the Jantzen PDF file link below, atkinsonrr.
It indicates the solid core speaker cable is:
Recommended application: Internal connections (crossover to terminals & drivers)
Keep in mind that Jantzen of Denmark is a fine European maker of high-end crossover components, such as capacitors and inductors.
The Jantzen Superior Z-Cap is one of my favorites. They know what they are doing. I really look forward to the results.
As you can see, when I rebuilt the crossovers for the S100s I used their Alumen Z-Caps. And Jantzen inductors are on the underside of the board.
User comments on the Audiophonics website re: the solid wire are very positive. Those who've used both the 1mm and 0.5mm say the 0.5mm is superior. So I'm determined to try the 0.5mm on midrange as well as tweeter. Should arrive by next week. I will for sure be reporting back!
Cool. Make sure to listen to the integration of the midrange and woofer if you try the 0.5mm (20 AWG) cable for the midrange.
If you seek more body, with a richer tonality, and perhaps better fleshed-out timbrel information, the 1mm (17 AWG) cable might provide more of what you seek for the midrange. Try both, for sure.
The chief difference is the 0.5mm (20 AWG) cable does not involve skin effect like the 1mm (17 AWG) cable, but the skin effect of the 1mm (17 AWG) cable will not affect the midrange in a notable manner.
All the material is now in to rewire the boards. While doing that, I thought I would make things a bit easier to look at. Here is how the new boards and layout will look. I am moving the wiring and inductors to above the board but still leaving two transformers under board.
Very impressive parts layout. I like the carbon fiber look you selected for the board. I don't know what the prevailing wisdom is regarding the minimum spacing of adjacent inductors, but you might want to mount the air core inductor "sideways", by using a plastic cable tie with two holes drilled through the board to strap the inductor on its side onto the board, atkinsonrr.
Just finished boards tonight. The vendor was short the 0.5mm solid copper Jantzen wire so I wired the midrange inside the speaker cabinets with 1mm. Elsewhere (crossover and crossover to speaker) used the 0.5mm wire on midrange. Used the 0.5mm on HF throughout and 1mm on bass throughout.
In terms of damping the caps, after reading Herbie's comments my take was that he was saying the best solution is blue RTV. I have some on hand and so used that. Mounted the caps on self-adhesive rubber gasket material that has two ribs with a valley in between. Filled the valley with the RTV to secure the caps to the gasket.
Very noticeable difference from the Duelund tinned/stranded wire. The best I can say it is everything is much more delineated. And not at all hard or bright. As if the Duelund wire was smearing the sound. Making porridge out of everything. The more precise nature of the sound seems to bring forth more spacial cues and thus soundstage is better also. Loving the improvement!
Great. I'm glad that the 1.0mm (17 AWG) wire was used for the midrange after all, since I think it should provide more body that you sought, and better integration with the low-frequency driver than the 0.5mm (20 AWG) wire would have provided for the application. BTW, the solder joints and wire will take some time to burn-in. I'm looking forward to your reports about the upcoming DIY Oyaide Black Mamba V2 with Viborg AC connectors power cord projects, atkinsonrr.
Have now lived with the change from Duelund stranded tinned to Jantzen "Solid Core Full Range Speaker Cable" in speakers and external crossovers and links between for a few days. The improvement is not subtle. As mentioned earlier the difference is similar to an out of focus camera. The Duelund being ill-defined and 'fuzzy' in comparison to the solid copper Jantzen. It strikes me that the Duelund is not so much about tone as it is vintage in sound. The change in wire was similar to going from my old refurbed Dyna ST70 to a modern tube amp. I had a very definitive demo of this at one point listening to Cream's Cant Find My Way Home. Ginger Baker uses a high hat as a kind of exclamation mark throughout the song. As long as I can remember I've been bothered by the sound as it came out a very annoying hashy SSSHHH sound. Always chalked it up to bad miking but after the change to the Jantzen it sounds completely different and completely natural.
I originally wired much of the midrange circuit with .5mm/20AWG Jantzen and the sound was a bit lightweight. I went back in and rewired with the 1mm/17AWG Jantzen and body improved. I tried the .5 initially in response to comments about the .5mm being superior overall to the 1mm. I think I understand where the comments are coming from. There was very little burn-in with the .5 but the 1mm initially sounds flashy and harsh. Happy to say a few hours of burn-in completely eradicates that.
Overall one of the better changes. And I thank Duster for the pointer over to the Jantzen wire. I will leave this with one of the classic review comments. You know, the one about the wife comes in from the other room and says "your stereo sounds really good". Yeah that really happened.
nice! congrats on the project, it's great when a plan comes together!
btw ... 'Cream's Cant Find My Way Home' ... ?
the only version I have is Blind Faith ... is yours from a bootleg or
Hahaha... Cream and Blind Faith always morph together in my mind. Might have something to do with the "sound enhancement products" I was ingesting back when the supergroups were popular?
Fantastic! Very nice transparent display of the crossover components. A finer gauge wire tends to be used for a capacitor lead and an inductor wire intended for a tweeter for good reason, while a larger gauge wire tends to be used as an inductor wire intended for a midrange and woofer for good reason. I think you made the right choice for your DIY crossover project, atkinsonrr.
Hey Duster -- Thanks for the compliment on the crossover boxes. I inherited a sheet of plexiglass when we moved into this house in France. So just had to find a project for it. The learning curve for cutting plexi without chipping or shattering was steep! Now am determined to get a piano black lacquer finish on those boxes. Again, steep learning curve, but I will get it eventually.
Oops, yes, that was my intent. I forgot when setting up for the picture. Thanks for the reminder!
You might want to try damping those caps with some fresh Mortite rope caulk. Not much to lose if you don't like it. Herbie likes the stuff.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Alfred E. Neuman
Hello tweaker456 -- Can you direct me to a page that shows how Herbie is using the Mortite on caps? I have searched but cannot find. I would actually use plasticine (like Mortite but does not dry out). Thanks.
I use museum putty for the purpose. It adheres very securely onto a capacitor. It must be good, since it's intended to save precious antiquities on display from accidental damage.
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