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In Reply to: RE: Using A Bi-Wire configured pair of speaker cable for a single wire application... posted by Julien43 on June 30, 2012 at 08:32:52
If the particular cable (internal bi-wire configuration) or cables (external bi-wire configuration) are symmetrical (both the high and low paths are the same design), the joined paths will in effect be a double run which should be fine. However, if the high and low paths are each designed to be optimized for a specific frequency spectrum, there could be unpredictable results due to cable reactance (such as comparatively skewed LCR) which could present a notably affected sonic signature when the wiring paths are joined together. Listen before you leap into a re-termination job. YMMV
Follow Ups:
...that the electrons are optimized for specific frequency ranges? That is just about the dumbest thing I ever read. Please stop trying to make all of us audiophiles look like complete idiots, Geoff Kaitt and May Belt are already doing a pretty good job of it, no need for you to pile on...
-RW-
that the electrons are optimized for specific frequency ranges? That is just about the dumbest thing I ever read
yes that is. Perhaps you should reread his post before making a statement like that.
Speaker cables that are bi-wire and are optimized for a high and low frequencies typically have differing wire gauges or geometries or conductors or dielectrics or a combination of some or all the above plus some variable I haven’t listed. For example the load of a large woofer differs from that of a small dome tweeter and is typically better served by a lower gauge wire. When cables of such design are used as a single wire run sometimes the results are less than optimal which is what Duster was saying.
Please show me, even anecdotally, where or how this is true:
(wires)
are optimized for a high and low frequencies typically have differing wire gauges or geometries or conductors or dielectrics or a combination of some or all the above plus some variable I haven't listed
What variables are those? voodoo? seriously, what are they? DC will travel the same down different gauge wire provided it can handle the current, so..........how do you optimally tune a wire to a given frequency?
You make the claim so I'd like to hear this.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Yep, variables I didn't list like solder selection or lack of, or connector selection are.
how do you optimally tune a wire to a given frequency
didn't think about that question at all before you asked it? Didn’t say anything about ‘tuning’ a wire. But I did say some speaker cables are built in such a manner to be optimal in the designers view for the driver they are connected to.
lets say I build a cable with 22awg stranded silver wire going to the tweeter with ptfe dielectric and 10awg solid core copper with PVC dielectric going to the woofer. That might be someone’s idea of optimal, not mine, but someone’s, now if you hook them up in reverse the 10awg to the tweeter and the 22awg it won't sound the same. Less extreme example would be take Kimber 4TC and 8TC while the 4 and 8 can sound pretty much the same on top the 8 will typically be an improvement in the bass.
There's no voodoo in any of what I've written, take the same gauge wire and make a twisted pair out of it and a quad and run them parallel. All three geometries will sound different even though DC is running down them; there capacitance and inductance values differ greatly. Signal will also pass through carbon fiber or a coat hanger or gold wire but they don't all sound the same, if they did you could use anything to hook up your system.
Hi Cpk,
Thanks for your input. It's not difficult to understand the issue when the notion of cable reactance is recognized. A double run of asymmetrical geometry speaker cables even when connecting non-bi-wire loudspeakers will create parallel circuits with dissimilar LCR characteristics. That's not my idea of a good thing from an audiophile perspective. While not specifically pertaining to joining asymmetrical geometry bi-wire cables at both ends, according to AudioQuest:
Asymmetrical geometry bi-wire cables even when connected via a proper bi-wire configuration may affect the coherency of bi-wire loudspeakers low-pass and high-pass passive crossover networks:
Text taken from AudioQuest White Paper (see link below):
-snip-
BiWiring and Cable Geometry:
When BiWiring, the two (bass and treble) cables must either be identical, or have essentially identical geometries. If the cables have different geometries they will have different capacitance and inductance. Capacitance and inductance are the values used to create a loudspeaker’s low-pass and high-pass filter networks, together making a crossover. Having different values in the two cables effectively redesigns the crossover… not a good thing! The integrity and coherence of the speaker will be compromised.
-snip-
See link to AudioQuest white paper PDF file:
He has a history of disruptive behaviour everywhere he posts - and especially in Cable Asylum, where he likes to violate the rules the most.
"optimal in the designer's view for the driver they are connected to"
please qualify that one.
Also, most speaker cables are connected to a crossover first, which are usually loaded with more wire, capacitors and inductors(long, long wires), so how do you "optimize" for that?
You an use 22 awg for speaker cable, which some do or 12 awg, what's the difference? As long as the 22 awg wire meets the voltage/current/power rating what's the difference?
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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