 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
65.197.196.190
Hi all,I just got into the audiophile equipment arena about two years ago. I did a lot of research and listening, and ended up with the following:
- Sim Audio Moon I-5080 Integrated (used- Audiogon)
- Rega Planet 2000 CD Player (ditto)
- Vandersteen 2 CE Sigs (new)
- Kimber PBJ interconnects
- Kimber 4VS speaker cables, single run to each speaker - not bi-wired.I find that most of my listening comes in the colder months, and now that I'm back into listening for the winter, I'm finding my music to be kind of lifeless. The one thing that I realized that I did "halfway" and never corrected was the speaker cabling. I cheaped-out at the original purchase, and went with a single run of 4VS cable to each speaker. A small amount of extra cable was provided to use as "jumper cables" between the high and low terminals of the speakers...basically two strands of the grey cable on each speaker. In addition, the cables are unterminated at the amp side (the speaker ends have spades, except the jumpers, of course). I am running 8 foot lengths right now, though I think I could easily make do with the current placement with 6 foot runs to each speaker.
So, the question is really two-fold. How badly do you think I'm compromising the quality of the sound with my current system using these cables and this set up, and what would you recommend as a replacement set? A third question (in case the answer is simply to buy a second run of 4VS and properly terminate the set I have) is how good are the Kimber 4VS cables? For budget, I'd like to stay south of $400, but I'm open to ideas.
Thanks, all.
Follow Ups:
Drew,I run a pair of Vandy 2CE signatures with a custom 100 watt rms amplifier and found Chris VenHaus (VH Audio) 12 AWG cryo unshielded bulk wire in a biwire arrangement to produce a wonderful sounding system. I use unterminated, bare wire connections from my amp to speaker screw terminals with some Walker Audio Extreme SST treatment on the ends.
Coupled w/ Chris's PULSAR interconnects - I simply have not found a better wire combination with the 2CE signatures in the "reasonable cost" range.
Regards,
Roger
You ought to consider bi wiring with Alpha Core MI1. I have been using these with my 2CE Sigs for nearly a year and enjoy the pairing a great deal. I feel that they are a great value, and the company offeres a 30 trial period too. My 2 cents.
If you were happy with your system before and now it sounds sort of lifeless, here is something to try and it won't cost you anything.Break down the connections in your system; AC, interconnect and speaker cables. Give them a really good cleaning. Really take your time with the AC plugs and RCA's. You could use some contact enhancer (Pro Gold, etc) on some of the connections after they are cleaned and polished. I usually use the wipes on the RCA's for the interconnects.
You should hear a big veil lifted and the sparkle return if it's been some time since you've cleaned them.
I run the 2CE Sigs biwired with Kimber 8TC. It sounds great, but I can probably do better. With the Vandys I'm totally sold on biwiring. I've tried both single and biwire with a bunch of different type cables and biwiring with the cables I've tried won out in every case in my system.
Regards,
John
...I have older Vandy 2Cs. For years they were bi-wired with Audioquest Type 6 (an early generation) but I think they're much better with the Mapleshade Double Helix I'm now using in a single run with Mapleshade jumpers. I'm not opposed to bi-wiring, and in fact may add a second run sometime. But it proved to me that on the one hand there's the issue of bi-wiring and on the other the issue of what cable you use. It's possible to get better results with a single run of a very compatible cable than double bi-wire runs of a cable that's not so compatible. I'm avoiding use of the terms "better" and "worse" cable on purpose, since it's just as likely a matter of compatibility.BTW-I use a 70watt continuous power integrated all-tube amp that features a published specification of 140watts max/peak power. It has plenty of power for my Vandersteens, which are probably close to the same sensitivity as yours.
I took a look at the spec's on the current Sim integrated that most closly matches what Drew has. It's a 70 watt into 8 ohm load and 110 watts into a 4 ohm load. Assuming the amp he has is reasonably close in its abliity to drive less than 8 ohm as the one I looked at, his amp ought to be able to drive his Vandy's in good fashion. They might be better served by an amp that's capable of doubling down into a 4 ohm load, but the Sim should be adequate. So, I'm back to suspecting cables. A better interconnect would be the first thing I'd check into then bi-wire runs of better speaker cable. Kava's suggestion of the HD14's might be a good cheap experiment to try for the speaker cable.
They list all of the historical data on their website of older products, including manuals, specs, reviews, etc. Here are the specs on my Moon I-5080:80W into an 8ohm load
140W into a 4 ohm loadFull specs: http://www.simaudio.com/mooni5080.htm
It seems to have plenty of punch, and these amps have always been reviewed at being extremely transparant.
I think the proposed experiment by the poster below of using cheap Home Depot cord for dual runs for test purposes is a great idea. Ihad not thought my PBJ interconnects were a weak point, but I'll take that into consideration as well.
Thanks for all of the advice!
Drew,I owned a pair of 2Ci's for 12 years and replaced them nearly 3years ago with the 3A Sigs. IMO, the 80W may be marginal for the 2's especially if the amp not capable of delivering more juice as the impedance drops. They're around 86-87db efficient and if I recall their impedance curve, the nominal impedance drops to around 6 ohms. Anyway, do check-out your amps ability to keep up with them.
As far as cables, I second the recommendation to bi-wire. I used a bi-wire run of Audioquest (original) Mid-Night with them until about two years ago with very good results. I've sense taken the plunge into DIY and built a set of Chris VH Cat 5's. Using full 27 pairs for the bottom and 15 pairs for the top. Upon initial listening the Cat 5 easily bested the Mid-Night's. Wasn't really even a contest. The 3A's really sound great using the Cat 5's. I should warn you though if you have any idea of making your own, the Cat 5's are a bitch to make. A LOT of labor.
Mike
I think cables make a huge difference and I'm not a big fan of Kimber. I had the PBJ's and the Hero. Neither sounds very balanced to me. I would look into either the Oritek X1 at $199 or the Grover Version 5 at $140. Grover has a big following but I've spoken to someone who compared the two cables and preferred the Oritek by a lot!
cable made out of the same cable, Kimber 4VS? If not, you may want to just cut a little of your Kimber at the unterminated end and make the jumper cable with the same wire as speaker cable.However, I must tell you that I used to own Vandy 2C loong ago (non-signature), and this speaker REALLY benefitted from true bi-wiring. It wakes up speakers' dynamics, drive, and "liveliness."
The jumpers are just two strands of the Kimber cable, essentially a small snip of the grey-casing cable divided by two, and the other speaker has the black-casing cable divided by two. Can't be good, I know! (After reading my Vandersteen manual and the stern advice contained, I half expect Mr. Vandersteen himself at my door one day to repo the 2CE's!)
I take it you are jumping from the low posts to the high posts. Even though bridging to the tweeter; using a single small conductor of this type will result in your treble sounding very lack luster. Believe it or not, a jumper really needs a rather massive aggregate gauge in order to provide any body. High conductivity is very important for a bi-wire jumper (bridging from either direction).I tested one 20 AWG solid core conductor at a time and found that at least an 11 AWG aggregate gauge per leg was needed. 9 AWG is not uncommon in commercial products.
Try a short length of an entire Kimber 4VS cable per leg...
> I'm finding my music to be kind of lifeless.>My first thought is that maybe your integrated amp may be underpowered.
What you describe sounds like a lack of dynamic life possibly caused by too little power. I'd say anything less than 100 watts is too little to drive these and you'd be better of with 150 to 200 watts if you play them at all loudly in a decent sized room.
I use cables to fine tune the sound in terms of subtle frequency balance, imaging and detail resolution.
This is rather difficult but I'm not sure your cables are the problem.Both the Planet and the Vandersteen are slightly laid back ( in a good IMO ) but the Kimber PBJ is somewaht forward and perhaps a little bright.
Although I don't know the size of your room and how loud you like to listen, I would expect the Sim to be adequate, at best , to drive your loudspeakers. More power would give you a more alive, clean sound especially at louder listening levels.
I would look at this and other options before spending money on anything.
I was most bowled over by these speakers when I heard them with a Cary "Six Pack" tube amplifier. Great presence and detail, and very adequate volume and punch. My initial thought 2 years ago was to buy a Sim I-3, but I found this great deal on an I-5080 that appeared to be very close in spec and appearance, albeit 80W versus the I-3's 100W.Perhaps I should audition some amps before taking a plunge on more cabling. Thanks for the input!
find your answer. Get yourself to Home Depot and buy some HD-14 (Halloween) outdoor extension cord. Make up four 8-footers (no need for spades at this point) and give it a try. At the very least it will give you an idea of how Vandies benefit from Bi-wiring. BTW-some folks say you should not run speaker wires shorter than 8'If you like them and hate the color - get some techflex and cover them.
I have used this combo (see my system) for a year and a half and have been very pleased.
Lots of discussion in the archives - they are directional - etc.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
