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In Reply to: RE: 18 dipol posted by bassaddicted on March 14, 2009 at 03:33:44
My experience is that the 18 inch dipole sounds better when positioned with the OBs. In my room I found the 12 inch and 15 inch sealed bass units needed to be on the back wall (this is due to the room modes of my specific room). Typically I'd expect the dipoles to need similar positioning to the OBs, certainly they will sound better with a little space to "breathe".
Follow Ups:
I have the situation, that i get the best bass respone with the "18" dipol when the front of them is like little more then 2 meter from the back wall. When i bring the Atlas OB to the same place, the sound from the OB gets a cool character. The sound is more warm when the baffle is like 1.25 from the back wall. When the "18" dipol is at this 1.25 place, i loose the the detail and speed of the bass. I tend to go ever closer to the back wall with the OB, to get more substance from 100 to 250 hz.
Ideas and help in this regard are welcome.
Regards Guko
Hi Guko,
the first step is the right baffle- placement and the right settings of the woofer- amps. Please follow the steps below exactly and inform me about the result.
The cool character also can result from not finished burn-in or by electronics and cabling. Please send me a mail with detailed informations about electronics and cabling, i`ll give you advice.
Baffle- placement:
First connect the amp with the baffle- section (wideband and tweeter) with your speaker- cables like you are used to connect any other speaker.
Now you can find the right placement for the open baffles, just listen to solo a voice with fully paralleled speakers, as much space inbetween the baffles as possible and move them away from the backwall until the voices rise in height, voices should be centered in the middle between the speakers (if not check if the speakers are exactly paralleled, move one baffle only two centimeters back and forth and listen until the imaging becomes right).
Woofer setup:
1) Phase settings: The right phase is essential for natural sound although the changes are relatively subtle.
- Switch one woofer amp "off".
- Rise the croosover frequency for the woofer to max. and also rise the volume a bit
- Turn the phase knob listening to music until the basses are maximum fat and boomy at listening position.
- Reduce the level and crossover to normal.
2) Crossover settings:
- Switch the woofer- amps "off" and listen to the imaging of the baffles only (choose a choir or a big orchestra).
- Switch the woofer- amps "on" and compare the imaging, reduce or rise the crossover-knobs (of both woofer amps, both always the same frequency- settings) to the highest possible frequency which doesn`t affect the imaging of the baffles. My own method is to rise the crossover frequency in about 10 Hz steps from lowest position and compare the imaging of each step to the imaging of the baffles only.
3) Volume:
- The right dose of volume is individual and also depending on the room. In most cases the volume of the woofers is set too high in the beginning.
4) Remarks:
- The phase- and crossover- knobs of the two woofer amps always should be positioned identical.
- The volume may differ a bit because most rooms and speaker placements are not 100% symmetrical, this can follow volume differences in the bass range.
- The quality of records differs a lot and it is impossible to find the right volume for all your records with one volume setting. Choose a position which is fine for you with about 90% of your records and reduce or rise the crossover frequency a bit when you listen to a record which shows a different tonality. Probably you will end with three positions, the middle position is right for most records.
Regards
Robert Bastani
Hi Robert,
thanks for this detailed information. I tried a few of your recomendations.
The result is fuller and warmer upper bass reproduktion, by change of the possition of the OB. Phase and crossover has been optimised.
My cabeling is fron van den Hul. Both LS and IC. I use 300B monos with EAR tube pre.I use 2 pcs. of Reckhron 402 amps for the diopols.
What is the improvement, when i would use the DSP amp from XTZ? I have seen them recantly on you homepage.
How important is the internal wiring of the OB?
Regards Guko
Hi Guko,
thanks for keeping me in touch!
The XTZ sub amp1 dsp offers advanced equalisation in the bass- range, negative effects from standing waves can be reduced - but the first step always is finding the best in-room position for the woofers. Dsp- correction is not a replacement for this, it is a powerful tool for further optimizing. Please read the review of the XTZ sub amp1 dsp on ETM.com, the review was made with the Bastanis 15" sealed- and the 18" dipole- woofers.
Please send me two pics in a personal mail, one pic of your room which makes the placement of the speakers visible and one pic from the backside of the o.b.`s which shows the wiring.
Regards
Robert Bastani
Hi,
the 18" dipole woofers doesn`t need to be placed under the o.b.`s, they allow separate placement, too. All dipole woofers need some space to the backwall, they produce differnt room- interactions like monopole woofers. The Bastanis 18" dipole woofers are designed to show exactly the same behaviour like the Bastanis o.b.`s, so the ideal place for the open baffles is also the ideal place for the woofers. When you prefer the look of the one- piece floorstanding baffles you can make the baffles extended with a slot- opening with the dimensions of the front- opening of the dipole woofers and place the woofers behind the baffles.
Regards
Robert Bastani
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