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| Model: | Fifteen |
| Category: | Amplifier (SS) |
| Suggested Retail Price: | $2995 |
| Description: | 175 W/CH Power Amp |
| Manufacturer URL: | Classé Audio |
| Review by audio39 (A) on September 03, 2003 at 10:48:36 IP Address: 216.94.129.143 | Add Your Review for the Fifteen |
I'll start by listing other Classe amps I have owned - DR-15, DR-10, DR-9, Ten. I've also owned amplifiers of a number of other manufacturers including Aragon, Krell, Luxman and PS Audio.My first impression of this amp was 'wow'. I really can't say enough about the pleasure I get from listening to this amp, or rather, the music it plays so well. I'm 3 months into owning this big fella and it's strengths are just so many. Bass, midrange, high frequencies, all clean and clear. The bass was the area that surprised me the most, as a former owner of a DR-15 I had been disappointed in this region previously. I'm told the only real change made to the Fifteen to update it from the DR-15 is some massaging at the output (this was apparently in response to poor reviews and that the amp hadn't been received overly well by the public), whatever they did it made a world of difference.
The Fifteen seems to take hold of the loudspeaker drivers in a fashion I haven't quite been accustomed to in the past, with my PSB Stratus Goldi's everything lights up just right whether playing rock, jazz, or anything else for that matter. Again, the bass is deep and tight but in no way overshadows any other area, it's just all there. When driving my former (sold to a friend) Acoustat Model 3's the soundstage is huge but well focused, the vocals are absolutely amazing, male or female, and regardless of speaker the absence of high frequency 'zing' is absolute.
Although I no longer have the other amps to compare directly to I will hazard a comparsion. The Fifteen is a refinement over the DR-15, to lift the lid gives no indication of change, but the sound is best described as tighter and more refined. Compared to the DR-9, all I can really say is that the 9 would sound smooth, less detailed side by side with a Fifteen, and the 9 would also be considered quite lean in the bass regions against the Fifteen.
Overall I'm obviously quite pleased with my purchase of this older amp. I had the financial resources to consider a new amp, but amplifiers is the one area that I just can't seem to justify new. Some of the best amps, IMO, were made during the 90's.
| Product Weakness: | Heats up my whole sound room. Has got me wanting another. |
| Product Strengths: | Bass is very deep and tight. No high end sizzle. Excellent driver control. |
| Associated Equipment for this Review: | |
| Amplifier: | Classe Fifteen |
| Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | Luxman C-05 |
| Sources (CDP/Turntable): | Classe CDP.5 |
| Speakers: | PSB Stratus Goldi |
| Cables/Interconnects: | Monster & Audioquest |
| Music Used (Genre/Selections): | Rock, Jazz, Blues |
| Room Size (LxWxH): | 26 x 15 x 8 |
| Time Period/Length of Audition: | 3 months |
| Other (Power Conditioner etc.): | UPS X 2 |
| Type of Audition/Review: | Product Owner |
Follow Ups:
I liked your comparison of the DR-15 vs the model 15. Some folks seem to think the only great Classe amps were the old DR series. I have to disagree. I had the DR-10. When I upgraded to the more recent CA-100, I immediately heard better bass detail over the DR-10. Your review seems to indicate similar findings going from the DR-15 to the newer model 15.
most folks that understand the model differences & the transition form DR to non DR models will state the following 'story' ...the original Dave Reich models (DR) were the DR2, DR3, DR3VHC, DR8, DR9. The DR3 & DR9 were considered the best and most popular.
If you look at the DR9 you will notice a headroom factor of 6db. During the turmoil of DR removal - classe wanted to compete in what then was regarded as the WATT WARS. Other companies were selling products based on - more watts the better.
So ... classe basically redesigned the amps to facilitate the 'war'. The DR25 is basically a DR9 with NO headroom, the ouput run entirely in classe A/B mode instead of the DR9 classe A to A/B transition. So ... the DR10 or Model 10,15,25 were basically derivitives of the DR9/8 with less output stability and speaker control.
The only 'real' DR amp models to many classe fans is the DR2 to 9.
Thats why classe soon replaced the DR monicker with Model 10 to 25 versions.
The mother boards were identical on the DR10 to the Model 10 - the DR was removed because DR himself was no longer part of Classe. As for the claim of improved output stages ... well ... i have heard that the that claim was indeed more a marketing ploy than a change in design.
IMO - the best sounding DR amps remain the DR3 & DR9. It is important to realize that unlike the 10+ version - the DR-9 versions were designed to be run in mono mode for ulimate sonic results. The bridge was designed so that the amp was compromised (slightly) when run in stereo mode - very different then most bridged amps that are compromised when switched to the mono mode.
The CA100 remains a v.good amp, more clinical than the DR9 and certainly less warm in tonality. However ... the DR9 is capable of controlling the speaker (at all frequencies) when reproducing extreme dynamic peaks. To many of the DR/Classe followers - the CA amps were a vast disappointment. In retrospect the CA were more different than inferior, but certainly could not be described as an improvement over the 'real' DR models.
TBone
TBone
Lots of good info, but not completely accurate.The output of the 10, 15 and 25 (DR or otherwise) ARE A/AB, you may contact Classe to confirm, but it is fact. The power supply in both the Twenty-Five and Fifteen is larger than that in the DR-9. Again, this can be substantiated by Classe and by simply removing the cover.
I'll throw on my engineering hat for a moment. Fewer devices does not equate to less control, better heat sinking with fewer devices eqautes to higher speed and ultimately better control. The dissipation of heat energy is extremely important, and the heatsinks on the later 15 and 25 models are superior (greater surface area per device) to the DR-9.
I recently read a review by a DR-9 owner claiming that in direct comparison to the new Omega monoblocks he and others were convinced the DR-9 was better sounding and more powerful. Didn't even bookmark that site.
As I stated in my review, I have owned these amps, and I have loved my time with each. To my ears the Model Fifteen in my current system is an improvement over each of the others I have listed. I have in no way allowed nostalgia nor pride of ownership to affect me.
I suppose I should have included that my opportunities to audition new Classe amplification has me convinced that the latest batch is yet again an improvement, just not enough to justify the additional $3000 (for the model that would make me happy).
And in closing, let's face it, we've all disagreed with professional reviewers, hard to think of another hobby that's more subjective than high end audio.
Unless of course you're foolish enough to try and convince me a Chevy could ever beat a Mopar...!!
but certainly nothing beats the 427 hemi..anyways ...
i deal with classe on a continues basis - even today - matter of fact (but for a different issue than amps).
from my research the dr9 passes into class a/b mode much higher into the wattage curve, the dr10 and others move from class a to ab at a much lower wattage.
The DR9 has 6db of headroom!!!
Correct me if i am wrong but dont the DR10,15,25 all have the same type & amount of output transistors?
But all stats aside ... IMO the best sounding classe amp that i have heard in the DR or 'model' range was easily the DR3 followed by the DR9. The rest all sounded 'different'.
TBone
TBone
You sure know your Classe history. So my DR10 was basically a Classe 10. And my going from the DR10 to CA-100 could in fact be an improvement as it was to my ears.... The main thing I noticed was improved bass detail... not as 'muddy' as the DR10.The only DR I owned was the DR10 so I have no experience with the 'real' DR's. With my Thiel speakers there was the bass detail improvement going from DR10 to CA-100 but the bigger improvement was going from the CA-100 to CA-200. I suppose this was mostly due to power and the ability to drive the Thiels with less effort. I also tried the CA-300 but couldn't hear any difference between it and the CA-200 (with my Thiels). For the smallish Thiel CS 1.5's the CA-200 was the sweet spot in terms of power.
People say that Classe amps are 'warm' but in retrospect the midrange seemed slightly lean to my ears.... And this is what started me on the road to vacuum tube amps.
interesting because thiels (which i think are truly excellent speakers) were also the speakers that i had heard the classe amps power.The same friend who owned many classe products - also went with vacuum tubes amps.
coinincidence ... well not really since the classe dr9 / thiel combo was excellent.
TBone
Did some digging, here's what I found.From Glen Grue and the design team at Classe (of the time)
The improvements to the Fifteen vs the DR-15 are as follows:
- Current delivery to the front end was improved with better impedance matching between supply and signal-bearing circuitry.
- the amount of input stage regulation was reduced
- output stage emitter resistor values were changedThe result was "an improved squarewave response and a more natural, more dynamic, more savage sound from the amplifier.
This is consistent with my experience between the two amplifiers, the DR-15 was polite with no growl, the Fifteen iteration woke up and called attention to the music.
The info I'm utilizing is from a Stereophile review of this amp by Larry Greenhill.
Their bench tests found the amp capable of 6db gain, the amp is advertised as having 3db.
The weekend of the 27th I will have a DR-9 in my home for 48 hours. Just for the fun of it a friend and I will be doing a direct comparison between the 2 amps (it's his DR-9). I'll post our findings on this site.
well i was not a fan of either the fifteen or the dr15 ... so ...im interested in the results of your comparison, which pre-amp will you be using and what is your front-end.
TBone
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