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In Reply to: RE: PS Audio SALE posted by AbeCollins on May 06, 2022 at 06:45:58
The S300 is a very decent amp -- even Amir at ASR admits this -- but at US$1500 it has dubious advantage over competition making class D module-based amps.This competition isn't only from "garage shops". Two makers that come to mind that make high-quality, well-designed, and physically attractive module-based amps are Nord Acoustics, (United Kingdom), and Apollon Audio, (Slovenia). OK, not USA the latter being worth something I suppose.
The Nord One NC500ST stereo is US$1080 which is comparable though some would argue that its Hypex NCore NC500 modules are superior to the ICEpower 300ASC. Also roughly comparable to the S300 would be the Apollon NCMP700, US$945, based on the Hypex NCore NC502MP integrated modules.
Not to exclude the "garage shops" entirely, VTV Amplifier offers its Hypex NC502MP NCore amplifier for US$760.
Of interest too would be Apollon's "Premium" NC1200SL monoblocks based on Hypex NC1200 module. The costs US$2430, much cheaper than the arguably comparable PS Audio M1200 monoblocks even on sale.
Paul Gowan might be loath to admit it but I believe he has his his eye on this effective consumer competition.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Edits: 05/06/22 05/06/22Follow Ups:
Including from Nord. Not as cheap as ICE or hypex (former best in the Universe), but It's the newest "thing".
Jack
But I'm not rushing out to buy any of the current offerings. I will wait, frankly, 'till I see some proper measurement for independent sources such as ASR or JA at Stereophile.
If I were tempted to try any of them on faith it would be the one offered by a fellow inmate, Ralph, (of Atma-Sphere), who understands the "voicing" of amps. Atma-Sphere's amp, is pricier that others but not outrageously so. See link below.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Stereophile reviewed both the Stellar M700 and Stellar M1200 mono amplifiers. Stereophile rated both of them "Class A" in their "Recommended Components."
I think I saw the Atma-Sphere Class D amp briefly mentioned in Stereophile or TAS but the MSRP was over $5K for a 100-WPC D amp. Those will work with my Tannoys but I also own a pair of Thiel speakers that are much happier with more power.
Edits: 05/07/22
The recent sale pricing on PS Audio Class D amps could be just a sale as they've had them before or it could be in response to price competition and newer designs on the drawing board. Maybe all of the above. The S300 and M700 are 5 year old designs. I believe the M1200 is a couple years newer.I'm not ready to jump on the GaNFET module of the month. I did that when NCORE became all the rage so I tried 3 NCORE amps. I decided that I preferred ICEPower [in a pair of Wyred4sound monoblock amps].
My preference must also have something to do with how the input section is designed and voiced. PS Audio and Wyred4Sound have been around the block a few times in this regard so I contend that it is not just a matter of which popular module a company chooses to stuff into their chassis even though many "garage shops" do just that. Not all, but many.
Class D is interesting to watch as we continue to see real advances in design and sonics in recent years.
Edits: 05/06/22
So consider that Purifi designs their modules for the lowest overall distortion they can achieve, and many builders follow through on that intent with I/O buffers that pass on the minimum of distortion to the Purifi module.
But PS Audio, to their credit, tacitly recognize the many audiophiles prefer a little of the right sort distortion. So for instance, they put tube buffer ahead of the ICEpower modules in their M1200 monoblocks.
VTV, (a "garage shop"), for its part, offers an extensive choice of buffers for their own VTV buffer plus a tube buffer. In case of my own VTV amp, I choose the VTV buffer with the Sparkos SS3602 op amp. Sparkos touts the SS3602 as very low distortion. I choose that over the Hypex buffer which sounded terrible to me on the top end; I preferred the Sparkos over a few other op amps I tried, including the OPA1612 and the Burson V6 Vivid.
But then again I'm now enjoying my Sonic Frontiers preamp upstream of the VTV Purifi. The SF is very "neutral" for a tube preamp but does add a small amount of tube je ne sais quoi .
I believe that measurements, if understood properly, can help an audiophile significantly narrow their options for amplification. Simple THD+noise/SINAD isn't useful in itself. Studying harmonic distortion spectra is much more useful and highly indicative of the nature of the sound one may expect.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Does VTV allow you to try a buffer and if you don't like it, trade it in to try another? Or do they allow you to buy several buffers and try them all, then get a refund on the ones you return ?Choice is a good thing until it makes the purchasing decision complicated.
Since I'm familiar with and generally like the PS Audio "house sound" buying their products without auditioning is a pretty safe bet for me especially when you consider the 30-day trial. They even pay for return shipping.
Some other overseas Class D brands were mentioned but I would have similar questions on ease of audition and product return if it's not what I want. Unless there's a US based dealer that handles the product and offers a generous audition and return policy I would be hesitant. This is where Audiogon comes into play ;-) Buy USED, audition, then SELL w/o too much financial downside if I don't like what I hear.
I think Amir and his ASR measurement web site has it's purpose. I mainly use it to see if a product is way off on specs or other bizarre anomalies show up.
Edits: 05/07/22
Abe, VTV has a 30 day return policy on the amps, not sure about buffers/op-amps but Warren Coleman is a very helpful and honest person to do business with, and I am sure he would work with potential buyer.
I know you are not in the market, just posting as someone else reading the thread may be considering doing business with him and wanted to give him kudos. He has great support, emailed a question on a Saturday evening not expecting an answer until Monday and he replied with a helpful answer in about 30 minuets.
I contacted him recently to discuss upgrading from my current Purifi to the newer higher powered module, after discussing my system and room he said he didn't think I would get any real benefit from upgrading (which I pretty much knew, but, you know, its a new and shiny bauble...)
I am very happy with my VTV amp and the customer service provided.
...but I have had nothing but great experiences with PS Audio with my sonic preferences and their support. Plus the PS Audio factory / service center is only a one hour drive from my home. They're located in Boulder CO.
I can see myself trying VTV and others someday. I'd be curious to try a GaNFET design after it's been out for a while longer with more companies adopting it.
nt
Dmitri Shostakovich
... It's going to cost you big bucks.
I don't have problem with PS Audio, especially amplifiers. Their sale brings their 'Sellar' products into consideration for new buyers.
Dmitri Shostakovich
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