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In Reply to: RE: PS Audio SALE posted by AbeCollins on May 04, 2022 at 20:13:04
Are you keeping your M700s?
I'm tempted to try the S300.
-Rod
Follow Ups:
Rod if you use a subwoofer connected to the amp's speaker terminals [not just REL brand]:" Its important to note that the Stellar Amplifier is a fully balanced BTL amplifier. As such, the Black terminal is not ground. If connecting the Stellar S300 to a REL Acoustics subwoofer, it's important to consult the manufacturer's service documentation to ensure the S300 is appropriate for the subwoofer."
If you use line out from your preamp [or LFE] this obviously does not apply.
Edits: 05/06/22
That's strange or maybe not. Does it affect anything other than a REL?
For me, it's not an issue as I run line level on the second outputs from the preamp to the subs.
-Rod
Apparently it does affect other than REL subs but only when using speaker output terminals from some Class D power amps [including Wyred4Sound]. Less of an issue with a single stereo D amp, more complex connections when using a pair of Class D monoblocks.
REL documentation has several setup examples. I -think- it has to do with special grounding considerations between sub and Class D amps. If you're curious checkout the documentation for any REL T/5x T/7x or T/9x [and possibly others].
But you're not affected if you're running line level connections. The only reason I even know about this is because I was looking into REL, SVS, and Rythmik Subs
If the Class D amps don't have a ground for a sub it seems like a defect of sorts. Is it the module? Or the second speakers connection?
My preference is lineouts from the preamp to the subs, but in my office, speaker connections were the only option. Because the cables were long, I just tagged off the speakers with a short cable to the subs next to the speakers. I wonder if that would make a difference on a REL?
-Rod
I don't know exactly what the design issue is but I think it has something to do with floating ground vs chassis ground possibly due to switching power supplies.
REL shows several subwoofer connection possibilities for Class D amps in their documentation so I would have a look there if you're curious. The REL high-level speaker connection cable has three conductors so you have to pay special attention to how they are connected to the speaker terminals and ground on Class D amps.
Again, there's no issue with using line level inputs to a sub driven from your preamp. But pay special attention if using speaker level signals to your sub. It's doable but read the documentation and/or contact the sub and amp maker.
The PS Audio Class D amps have a second set of speaker connections but those are simply wired in parallel which can come in handy for bi-wiring. You can use either set if you're not bi-wiring.
When I purchased by first batch of PS Audio gear, I was considering the
S300, but the sales guy (since departed) stated that the M700s were a
far better product sonically. I've never heard the S300, but I do love
my M700s.
Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid.
I owned the PSA M700s before the huge price increase, and they were nice, but didn't couple my 98dB efficient speakers to my large room.
LSA recently introduced the Warp One (class D, but not GaN) for $1200 but if you're willing to spe3nd $3K, the LSA Voyager amp is the one to own: MSRP $3000, but they run sales @ $2500
hth
I'm not a fan of ASR for their audio reviews on how products actually sound, but they are good at catching significant flaws.Conclusions
"Other than having a lot of power and good efficiency, there is not much else to be happy here. Clearly companies are using GaN as a buzzword without fully taking advantage of what it can provide. Lots of money is left on the table here in many areas from frequency response load dependency to high amount of distortion. At the end of the day, you have an expensive, high power amplifier here with average performance.I can't recommend the LSA Voyager GAN 350. Performance is not there, nor is quality control."
Edits: 05/08/22
At the price, it's easily sold.
If it's as good as my current options, the 12V trigger and lower energy costs are advantageous. My other amps run hot and are left on.
For Maggies, the M700s seem a better choice.
-Rod
I am running gunned 1.6s with the 700s and they sound the best they ever have. I've had them for about 6 months now. I thought the Oddessy Monos would be my last amps but they ran out of steam at high SPLs. I don't think you can go wrong with these.
I owned the Odyssey Stratos Extreme stereo amp a long time ago. It was a great value and a very nice sounding amp. The Pass X150.5 that I bought later was better in sonics and build quality but now we're talking a much more expensive amp.
I also tried various Class D amps back then including some ICEpower and Hypex. To my ears the Wyred4Sound ICE were excellent but I wasn't quite ready to stick to Class D.
Fast forward a decade or more and I am very pleased with my PS Audio M700 ICEpower based mono blocks.
Never say never but I plan to keep my M700s for a while. I've had them for about a year now but as you know, I enjoy trying different equipment. I have no plans to sell them anytime soon.As for the S300 at the sale price, you have very little to lose. PS Audio has a 30 day return policy. If you keep it longer and decide to sell it, you won't lose much selling on the used market. It won't lose much value relative to the sale price.
Edits: 05/05/22
For those who wish for the S300, ASR takes a peek inside and critiques the ICEpower modules.....HYpex is better.Read post #83 by Amir: CLass D amps (ALL) sound the same...or do they?
.
Sabaj A 8 is only 259.00
https://www.amazon.com/ICEpower-125ASX2-Integrated-Audio-Specific-Low-Distortion-High-Efficiency/dp/B09NW27BWH
Edits: 05/05/22 05/05/22
I don't buy products based on Amir's measurements.......
Amir (ASR) is all about specs and measurements and his buyers make purchases with ZERO regard for how the item actually sounds. Tube amps will fail miserably in ASR lab tests but many actually SOUND fantastic.
I've had Hypex based amps in my setup in the past along with ICEpower. I wasn't real impressed with Hypex even though everyone thought these Class D modules were the hot ticket. I preferred the ICEpower amps [and still do] including a couple from Wyred4Sound and now PS Audio.
As for the PS Audio S300, it is not just an ICE module in a box like so many cheaper garage built amps you see on the market. PS Audio uses their own analog input stage on the S300 [as well as their other Class D amps] for a pleasant "house sound". This isn't their first rodeo and they've been around for several decades with a real US based factory and customer support.
I am very pleased with my ICEpower based PS Audio M700 mono blocks.
PS Audio S300 stereo amp analog section:
It is good you can drink the cool aid from PS Audio. They have a champion buyer for life. Best wishes.
It is good you can drink the cool aid from Amir. He has a champion reader for life. Best wishes.
Take a look at Amir's post on the PS Audio P12. It's a pissing match between those who listen and those who measure.....Paul even challenged Amir's assessment.
I would rather be a reader for life, than the sucker who makes a purchase then regrets that purchase.
Best to those who find his (Paul's ) videos on YOUTUBE entertaining.
I'd rather be a listener for life than a sucker who takes Amir's advice and then regrets that because even though Amir and his measurements tell me it shouldn't be so I no longer enjoy music on my system.
JohnK
Have you ever listened to them?
He's gone off-topic. The P12 is not an audio amp. It's an AC power regenerator.
Edits: 05/07/22
The price in 2019 was $1499.00 as shown at ASR review
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