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In Reply to: RE: need help choosing integrated amp posted by LennyF on January 11, 2017 at 04:41:04
Have you heard the Hegel?Going from tube pre-amp and amps (300Bs, no less) to a $2000 SS amp/DAC? Seems like a set up for disappointment.
I'd recommend a Rogue Cronus Magnum II (100 tube wpc, $2495 list) and keeping the Metrum Octave. To me it sounds best with KT66s (55 wpc) but you can use EL34s, 6L6GCs KT77s, 6550s, KT88s, KT90s, or KT120s at various power levels up to 100 wpc.
Edited for additional tubes.
Edits: 01/12/17Follow Ups:
The Rogue looks good and would probably satisfy me. As would a Line Magnetic or other good tube integrated. I feel no need for a phono section or headphone amp, and would like to unclutter as much as possible, so a builtin dac is desirable. Something like a LIO, but less expensive.
Lenny
I echo the above post. Going from that setup to a full SS integrated isn't going to be a smooth transition. The Cronus would be the one to beat.
Heck, if I was going that route I would be buying one.
Just one point. I would highly recommend NEVER mixing your source, especially digital, with an amp. Things can change quickly in the digital world. And don't say they can't because who knew 10 years ago we would be streaming audio from iphones, bluetooth devices and internet players.
Just makes good sense to keep your amplification separate from your ever changing source.
DAC technology continues to evolve. We had FireWire, adaptive then async USB, support for "CD quality" PCM, high resolution PCM, DSD64, higher resolution DSD, and now MQA in a small handful of DACs. Outstanding and very capable DACs are available at very reasonable prices and as DAC technology evolves we can simply buy a new DAC. I would not buy an integrated amp setup with the DAC built-in UNLESS I were very very space constrained. I -might- consider something like this in my home office but not for my primary system.
I owned some pretty decent separates over the years including a pair of 250wpc Manley Neo-Classic 250 monoblocks (10 EL34's per amp), Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks, AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks (6 EL34's per amp), Wyred4Sound SX-500 Class D monoblocks, Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 2nd Edition monoblocks, and several stereo amps and various preamps.
When I downsized I needed a fair amount of power for my Thiel CS2.4 speakers. 50wpc won't cut it but 100wpc from the Rogue Cronus Magnum (using KT120 tubes) does a great job. This same amp outfitted with EL34's was under powered in my setup but with KT120's or KT90's it sounds wonderful.
I have the 100wpc Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated in the basement system on the Thiels and the 60wpc Ayre AX-7e SS integrated in my home office driving my Tannoys.
Abe - like you I have Thiel 2.4s that have always been driven by solid state amps. Any other tube integrateds you can recommend besides the Rogue?
I normally don't care for the ARC sound but I once owned the ARC VT100mkII and it did a great job on my Thiels. The smaller VT50 didn't cut it.
Any of these Rogue amps sound great on the Thiels: Atlas, Stereo 90 / 100, Cronus Magnum, Cronus Magnum II, and probably their larger monoblocks. One caveat though. The stereo amps should be outfitted with the KT90 or KT120 tubes, preferably KT120. They will accommodate EL34 but this tube was marginal on the Thiels.
I suspect that many tube amps over 100wpc will likely do fine.
I ordered one from a local brick and mortar shop down here in Daytona Beach where we escape the snow for the winter months and hope to have it in a week or so. I must say that your descriptions over the past few years have contributed to my decision, but I also really liked what I heard when I auditioned it.Aside from power, how do you like the KT120 tube compared to the KT88 or EL34? I like the the KT88 and EL34, but not the 6550 all that much. I've heard that the KT120 sounds closer to the KT88 than the KT90, which I've heard described as thin and aggressive. Which is NOT what I want! ;-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 01/12/17
I really love the sound of EL34 tubes but not in the Rogue Cronus Magnum driving my Thiels. I had the Manley Neo-Classic 250 monoblocks with 10 EL34 per side and that was heavenly! Same for the budget AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks with 6 EL34 per side (on my Tannoys).But.... two EL34s per channel in the Rogue didn't work out with the Thiels. The KT90 was powerful enough but the KT120 sounds much better to me.
I wouldn't describe the Cronus Magnum with KT120's as "rich, robust, and warm" like a good EL34 amp so I hope you don't find it to be lean or harsh.
We were in the Coco Beach / Merritt Island area last year for a wedding just before Hurricane Matthew caused mass evacuations. My wife's family out there didn't completely evacuate like many others but they moved inland several miles and hunkered down in a sturdy church where my brother in-law is the pastor. The church and their homes all survived.
Edits: 01/13/17
I've heard the Cronus Magnum with KT88's and KT90's. The KT88's sounded fine, I didn't much care for the sound of this amp with the KT90's.
I ordered my Cronus Magnum immediately after hearing one with the KT120's. This was about three years ago and I have never regretted my decision. I say go for the KT120's, you won't be sorry.
Cheers,
SB
I loved the sound of it too with the KT120s, and that's what they ship with these days by default. Really eager for it to arrive!
Once it's all settled in and i've enjoyed it over time, I might try other power tubes for the fun of it, but I doubt that will be any time soon. I'm curious about the KT77 in particular. Love the EL34 in some amps - have not heard them in the Cronus, but heard some negative comments about that combo. Seems like the KT77 might be somewhere between the EL34 and KT88 tonally (from what i've read only)?
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
From an audiophile perspective I absolutely agree with keeping the source separate. But since I just want a simple integrated, I'd like to go all the way. Some modern integrateds seem to be 'roon ready' (whatever that means), bt compatible, etc.
In truth, I know it will be a downgrade, from SET etc. to an int amp. I just want something that will not annoy me -- it doesn't have to entrance me.
Lenny
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