|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
208.131.186.2
In Reply to: RE: Not sure I made my point clear... posted by E-Stat on May 15, 2011 at 12:49:56
E-Stat,
I realize, now, that you are serious about getting more 'warmth' from your (main?) system, in particular. I'm very sure your VTL 450 is absolutely capable in that regard - so that's not a problem. I wonder, though, if with the SoundLabs 8' out from the wall, whether the lower-mids are sufficiently reinforced. I'm not sure, another inmate, Duke LeJuene of AudioKinesis, is a SoundLab fan and (former?) user - let's hope he sees this and jumps in to advise you.
But from where I sit, and from what you've said, I'd be more inclined to take a serious look at that SP9. I know some ARC fans think the SP9 is not amongst the best of ARC pre-amps. And you 've mentioned: "I originally bought the unit as a MKII and had the factory update it to MKIII specs. That change itself improved the lower midrange output and removed a touch of thinness with the MKII flavor. I don't perceive any change of tonal balance when the preamp is bypassed and replaced by attenuators."
Regarding the SP9's 'thinness' you cited, I wonder if ALL of it was removed. I know no such thinness existed in (others around that era) the SP8, SP10, SP11, or LS3. The LS1 & LS2 are not highly rated, as I recall, and those were derived from (you guessed it) the SP9, I believe. Perhaps this could be where your issue lies.
Another of our inmates, Bambi, is expert on ALL things ARC, she owns SP8, LS3, and SP10, among others (amps included). She knows all about every pre-amp ARC has ever made (and perhaps some W.Z. Johnson hasn't thought of as yet, LOL) Let's hope she also sees this and jumps in to advise you on the SP9.
Bye the way, as far as tubes go, all ARC's tend towards the 'neutral' (some more than others). If it turns out that the SP9 is the actual cause for your concern then, in seeking an alternative, I'd look at the Conrad-Johnson line - notorious for bringing extra 'warmth' to a 'cool' system.
Oh, and regarding the 2nd system, I know the Threshold was totally awesome in most respects - not sure it was renown for its performance at the lower-mids, though, certainly not to the level of your VTL, I'm sure.
Best of luck with the SP9.
Follow Ups:
I realize, now, that you are serious about getting more 'warmth' from your (main?) system, in particular.
Why on earth would I want to do that? As for me, I prefer a neutral overall response.
I wonder, though, if with the SoundLabs 8' out from the wall, whether the lower-mids are sufficiently reinforced.
This is a very important point. Regardless of the sonic signature of various components, you want a neutral result in the end. In room measurements vary by +- 1.5 db from 30 hz to 200 hz. As compared to live sources like my wife's baby grand, the lower midrange is as neutral as it measures. You might, however, prefer the garage system where there are 3db peaks at 160 hz and 320 hz which creates some artificial warmth.
rw
E-Stat
If one were to go back over the history and content of our correspondence, one could get the distinct impression that there were issues with your system(s) you were seeking assistance at resolving. I use the word 'could' deliberately because I feel you were deliberately ambiguous in your outreach for advice so that you could get that advice , and then turn around and pretend that you were never seeking that advice in the first place. [A man of your (assumed) intellegence ought to be able to express himself vastly more clearly than you have, consistently. Therefore, there must have been a clandestine motive for the ambiguity}.
As to your motive for such a charade, my guess would be 'pride'. Perhaps you want to convey, to your peers, the impression that all is well with your system(s) even though you have significant issues that need resolving. At the very least, this would be extremely hypocritical. There are other descriptive terms I could use, but I'll refrain, in the interest of civility. Suffice it to say, I do not appreciate being used in such a manner. In keeping with your custom, I'd expect you to deny every word of this, but that is entirely expected, under the circumstances. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.
With the above being said, I've already consigned that issue to the realms of ancient-history.
However, there is another issue which cannot be so easily written-off (or explained away) as there's no excuse for it. It is unfortunate that in the course of discourse, so to speak, some feel inclined to sneek-in snide remarks laced with tongue-in-cheek cynicism bordering on the blatantly insulting - for no good reason.
Your words; "As compared to live sources like my wife's baby grand, the lower midrange is as neutral as it measures. You might, however, prefer the garage system where there are 3db peaks at 160 hz and 320 hz which creates some artificial warmth."
What could have motivated you to say such a thing? You need not bother to respond, as I've lost my interest in conversing with you. Perhaps some other time - not this minute. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an apology to make elsewhere.
Thanks for another of life's lessons.
...one could get the distinct impression that there were issues with your system(s) you were seeking assistance at resolving.
I sure don't see how. First, I point out that I hear no difference in tonal response to using the preamp or not. You didn't accept my opinion and pressed on. In my second response, I reinforced the fact. Remember this?
In my case, I find no difference in tonal quality between using my ARC preamp vs. DACT attenuators with a GamuT CD-1.
And for the second time, you once again ignore what I said and press on. What part of "no difference in tonal quality" don't you understand? Then you introduce the ridiculous notion that I am "serious about getting more 'warmth' from your (main?) system". Huh? You continue to miss the point. Three times in a row. Is English a second language for you?
What could have motivated you to say such a thing?
You ignored my previous comments twice and for some reason, think I need or seek more output in the warmth region. I don't. If, on the other hand, you really like ripe output there, then you would clearly prefer the tonal balance with the garage system. Which is more a function of the room than the components.
Time to move on.
rw
E-Stat: - Well, you're certainly a piece of.....work. Now I'm certain of the reason for your deliberate ambiguity. (Talk about bait & swoop). But why bother with that charade? You must really lead a miserable life. The evidence is there to see, you're already exposed for what you are. Look back at the thread - and then move-on. I'm gone!
Edits: 05/16/11 05/16/11 05/16/11
The evidence is there to see...
Indeed it is. My comments have been clear and consistent:
1. Don't experience that with my Audio Research preamp.
2. In my case, I find no difference in tonal quality between using my ARC preamp vs. DACT attenuators with a GamuT CD-1.
3. I don't perceive any change of tonal balance when the preamp is bypassed and replaced by attenuators.
4. I got extremely smooth response from 25 hz to 200 hz.
5. Regardless of the sonic signature of various components, you want a neutral result in the end. In room measurements vary by +- 1.5 db from 30 hz to 200 hz. As compared to live sources like my wife's baby grand, the lower midrange is as neutral as it measures.
6. No, I don't want *more* warmth. I took considerable pains to get audibly and measurably flat response and that is where I want the sound to stay.
I recommend that you redouble your efforts with understanding the English language. Best of luck with your crusade. :)
rw
E-Stat:
By picking out snippets to show yourself in a favorable light, don't you think the astute amongst us will immediately recognize your ploy to divert them from looking at the full thread and comfirming what a diabolical creature you really are? Why should you want to be so 'helpful'? Let them see for themselves.
I'm not inclined to bother with your quip about the english language, except to remind... no.. ...inform you.... that the onus is on the comunicator to get his message across, in as clear and concise a manner as is possible. Mixed-messages, garbled ambiguity, and a general lack of clarity (deliberate, or otherwise) causing 'misunderstandings', is a reflection on the sender (the communicator) not on the recipient of said (mixed) messages. Or weren't you aware?
...that's the only explanation I can think of to explain your responses.
You've overstayed your welcome here. Next time you ask for input, accept it for what it is. Don't try to convince everyone that they need to adopt your point of view.
AbeCollins: - Don't be a fool. It's good the thread exists to look back on. I do have an opinion on the subject, but the content of my posts does not support your dishonest arguments. You are the main individual who has tried persistently to imply that I'm seeking to impose my views on others. Of what benefit would that be to me? What do I care whether you do as I do, or share my views? Your nefarious mind refuses to accept that this may just be a quest to gauge opinion on a pertinent topic. No, you prefer to highlight my own opinion, and attack it. Get real!
E-Stat,
Here's what you said, "I agree about the importance of the "warmth" region"
Now you say, "Why on earth would I want to do that? As for me, I prefer a neutral overall response." I do too. But aren't you somewhat confused? And does your concept of 'neutrality' preclude the presence of 'warmth', as you call it?
As to your 'gracious' offer; a glance at the post above will comfirm that I'm perfectly happy with my own system - more than any I can think of. Go ahead and search - you certainly wouldn't find any thread with me complaining about my components, or the sound (and then turning around to pretend I wasn't - just to impress onlookers). So why would you want to make such an offer.
However, if you'll get back to me, I tell you exactly what you can do with it.
Have a nice day!
I'll respond to your statement again:
that you are serious about getting more 'warmth' from your (main?) system, in particular.
No, I don't want *more* warmth. I took considerable pains to get audibly and measurably flat response and that is where I want the sound to stay. Don't need exaggerated response!
And does your concept of 'neutrality' preclude the presence of 'warmth', as you call it?
Not at all. Some electronics and systems sound thin in the warmth region. Some systems sound overblown in that region. I prefer neutrality to either extreme. Not thin. Not warm. Got it?
rw
...as evidenced by his response to you as you attempt to provide your input which he asked us to do.
He's done the same to me. I provided my input backed with examples and all he wants to do is cite some online rag and convince you that you're wrong. And when he can't, he resorts to being rude.
with a characteristic that is highly system dependent.
My system is similar to Mike's in its "attenuator friendly" nature: GamuT CDP with both low impedance (75 ohms) and high output (4 volts) combined with a first cousin to the amp both of you have - the VTL MB450 - which also has high input impedance (137k ohms) and high sensitivity (1.5 volts). I also use short, low cap ICs.
There's nothing to fix. Sheesh!
rw
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: