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Hi there,I was hoping to get some advice. I've narrowed down my search for a used power amplifier to between the Phase Linear 400 or a Mcintosh MC 250. I have about $500 to $600 to spend (that's including the assumed service for the Phase Linear 400 - which everyone suggests if you buy one online). Here is the rest of my system:
Denon DP45 Turntable w/ Grado Platinum Needle
Apt Holman Pre Amp
Rotel CD player
Klipsh Heresy Speakers circa 1985Any guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks much,
Follow Ups:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1183577760
Having owned a MC250 since new and it was the main amp in my system until only a couple of years ago and still in my inventory I can tell you that it is ONE way underrated amp. Also, I own a set of Heresy IIs and it is the 1 amp I can run with the Heresys that does not make my ears bleed. The Heresys do not needs or can handle more than 100 watts RMS and most run them on small amps. The MC250 is 1 of only a few SS amps that does not change the make the Smaller Advents sound different than the original Advents. Henry's spec was that they will sound the same and they can be. A great way to determine if an amp is stable into 4 ohm loads. Having run the 250 against both a 400 and 700 some years ago, unless you are looking for disco volumes and shrieking sound, the MC250 would be the way to go. The MC250 us a minimalist amp and easy to check and bring up to spec so will not be difficult to make sure it is operating at 100%. Also, if you do not like it, or decide to move on, it is an amp that will not depreciate.If you were running a 250 into 4 ohms and had difficulties, there was a problem with your setup. As for detail and bass. If either an issue, it usually indicates it needs some cap work.
What you need is an Accuphase C-200 preamp and P-300 amp.These units were once the very best available, and still a benchmark which other seperates are judged by today.
Since your budget will only allow the purchase of a P-300, and your preamp is good enough to suffice, you can purchase the C-200 when you have the cash (which you WILL want to do).
They regularly sell on eBay, but you will want to make sure they are in proper operating condition, especially the P-300.
Having been serviced by Accutech in the last 10 years would help.
Don't discount Phase Linear.I have been testing a 700 series one and it holds its own with the best of vintage SS. It frankly took me by surprise.
Peter
8-8-07
Dear forum members,
I am so fed up with Phase Linear 400 amp bashing and ridicule that I am lashing out about it myself, right here, right now!
First of all, this amp wasn't built for live performance use, stage, musical instrument, PA or whatever, it was built for Hi-Fi use, does anyone even know that term anymore? The amp was designed using available parts from that time period. Yes chassis design and components could have been possibly better, but one can say that about almost any amp other than a Mac, or more costly piece of equipment, higher cost being the key word here. I presently own five PL400’s and I'm happier than most listeners out there because my amps have; loads of 'bass-slam', high frequency 'transparency', broad frequency extension, and the ability to go for years with-out any problems, henceforth they’re so popular on the eBay circuit that they’re actually making a ‘come-back’ of sorts, this being driven mostly by their ‘collector’s’ and ‘classic’ status.
I have owned one since new in 1974 and although it is in need of repair presently (being 33 yrs. old now) it went for many years of use before dying, it is slated for repair before the winter 2007, and I’ve found a great guy to do it well (“Watts-Abundant”), which usually it is difficult to find a technician who understands their inheritant peculiarities’. Admittedly I drive my equipment hard almost every listening session (4 to 5 nights a week) with low 4 ohm, AR-LST speakers and over the course of many years (with fuses in place), they’ve lasted. I decided in 2006 to buy another 4 more, as I realized the available crop of used 1970’s American components was being thinned out by foreign buyers.
This 1970’s gear in terms of power-amps and Acoustic Research speakers is being bought at an amazing rate by people who are realizing that for the used price of these items, they can’t be beat for their realistic sound quality, lasting ability and their wonderfully impressive appearance. So yes, I can easily enjoy a Bryston, Boulder, Mac, or even a B&K or an Adcom, but the Phase Linear 400 for me has always been a tremendous source of pleasure both sonically and visually.
I do offer a word of caution though, beware of units that have been ‘butchered’, altered improperly, or otherwise ‘revamped’ in a inappropriate way by some un-knowledgeable person, for lack of putting this in another way.
I own five 400’s because I have 4 amps running two systems comprised of ‘stacked’ classic speakers. System # one is 4 stacked AR-LST’s and 2- PL400 amps. System # two is 4 stacked AR-3a’s and two more PL400’s running that show. I mostly listen to CD’s and vinyl, sometimes I’ll listen to another great piece of equipment, my-
“Revox A77” which is always fun to play with, and for background or listening to golden memories, a Pioneer CTF900 and Carver 1500 cassette decks. My vinyl table is a Tannoy/Micro-Sieki TM55, another rare and sort-after classic, guiding another all-time classic with new styli, a Shure V15 Type3, Stanton 681EEE, Shure M97E, and a Sumiko Blue Point. My musical tastes are primarily focused on 1964 to 2005 selective progressive and classic rock music, and when I’m more pensively minded, I’ll listen to vinyl classical and symphony records -mention some and I probably have the piece.
So yes, all vintage equipment listening to mostly vintage rock and classical music all of the time is my pleasure. Is there anyone who has a better idea? Especially in this present world when every car looks the same as any other and all the people who balked at American station-wagons and big long beautiful American hard-tops is now driving a ugly and low styled SUV talking on a cell phone while wearing their baseball cap backwards- yeah, my kind of people- yeah-RIGHT!
Most people who have any sort of cultivated musical taste will agree, as a general statement, most of all rock today in 2007 really sucks and is weak compared to yester-year and classical is only being redone over and over, but that’s alright, YoYo Ma is good.
I welcome rebuttal, agreements, or just plain B.S.
Respectfully, Frank Marsi
Hello Rich. PhaseLinear and Klipsch? Yikes! Furthermore.... I must say I do like the nostalgic look of the PL 400, sonically speaking though....it has to be regarded as one of the worst sounding muscle amps ever made. I think Feanor's description is bang on the money, not to mention a huge dose grain and serious glare when pushed. Surely a recipe for a painful experience. Are you trying to punish someone? BTW,the Heresy's sound terrific with a many tube amps from the same era. Cheers
Thanks guys,That being said any recommendations for an amp beside the adcom?
I owned the Phase Linear 400 for years and listen for 5 days or so the the Marantz MC 250 in my system. To boot, I drove them both with an Apt Holman that I also owned for years. By the way, I had new power capacitors on the PL but not other mods.The PL 400 is very bright and not particularly well resolved. The MC 250 was mellower sounding but no better resolved (if as good) and maybe not quite as firm in the bass. After 5 days driving a 4 ohm load, (Magneplanar MMGs), the MC 250 blew up!!
Want a better amp than either for about the same money? Try an Adcom 555II; yep! better all round (believe it or not).
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
If your Monarchy SM-70 Pro have an ajustable gain as alot of Pro amps do.
Bi-amp and pick up a Forte #4 or a Threshold S/150.
If you don't want to bi-amp go for a Threshold S/300.Both Threshold + Forte amps worked great with my Maggies.
I did have a B+K 442 that worked great and was rebuilt, but the Threshold + Forte were better sounding.How big is your listening room? Do you listen at very high volume?
compared to a mc250. Look for a Used BK, Ex442 is a killer or any of the st series
ABout the McInstoshI wouldnt put a 50watt Mc on Magnepans, they need power. I drove mine with a MC2205 - 200 wats with 3db headroom and I was still able to clip it. So that fact the amp blew doesnt suprise me especially being 30 years old...
i did change the transistors 8 years ago as when i got the unit used it seemed like 1 channel was out of spec,
these guys have autoformers for 4 ohms, ok its not a amp i can stand for music at home but in my store it looks good and has been working, longer than any thing i recall,it hardly gets warmnow that you reminded me i will go and pet it and tell it that i love it!
I don't think it's that common, unless you have other experience and knowledge. How about other amps, such as Haflers?
the Adcom is certainly the choice among those three.
A buddy of mine had a Phase Linear and once when he came back into the room the amp was actually on fire. From that point on we called then the Flame Linear amps. IIRC this wasn't an isolated incident. Caveat Emptor!
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