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It's been a long time since I've written on the AA but recent developments with my system have put the passion back into my listening so I thought I'd drop by and tell y'all.For about the past year I've been experiencing a lack of detail in one speaker. It got to the stage where it was almost like a channel imbalance, although it was more like a detail imbalance - as if one channel was lo fi. It was really beginning to bug me !
It took a while but I finally narrowed it down to the pre amp - An AVI 2000. The AVI has always served me well, replacing a Rotel, then a home made passive and a short spell with a venerable Hafler. Apart from the lack of a volume knob (you just get two buttons) it's been one of the strongest links in the chain.
Anyway, I called my old man (who replaced his preamp with a balanced output preamp from ATC to go with his active speakers). He sent me the Linsley Hood designed pre amp (built from a Hart Kit) which he had been using. John Linsley Hood was a British amplifier designer who was most active in the 70's. Back in the day, Dad was considering a Quad amplifier for his BC1's but had the opportunity of hearing a JLH design against the Quad. The JLH designs have been resident until a few years ago when the ATC's were discovered.
Anyway, I unboxed the JLH pre, connected it up and had a listen. After a few issues with interference from various electronic pieces of junk (100 euros DVD players, digital TV decoders, computers) which now remain disconnected, I have to say that the improvements are nothing short of incredible. All the detail imbalance is gone (which I expected). What I did not expect was the total dissasociation of the sound from the speakers, the improvement in sound stage (in the depth plane especially), the bass (which is deeper - a lot deeper !) the background silence and just a general smoothness in the sound - which is counterpointed by an increace in detail and 'naturalness' - for want of a better word. All this from a pre amp which was probably designed before the invention of CD's.
I have lost the luxury of remote control and I no longer listen to the TV via the hi fi but I couldn't care less. I am re-discovering my record & CD collection and the magic that they can create. I am one happy camper !
Best regards,
rr
Follow Ups:
Huge for either the positive or negative in sound quality. Choose wisely because it has a central effect on the sound.
It is hard to make a decision since no one states their individual experience with specific models. One of the finest passive preamps I have heard was the now defunct Reference Line. I run a CJ CT-6 preamp now though, it works better with my phono section.
I have run the passive Creeks, listened to various TVC's, and quite a few other powered units. They are all unique and different sounding.Stu
< < I no longer listen to the TV via the hi fi > >This in itself will make a huge improvement in sound quality. All modern TVs use switching power supplies that create incredible amounts of noise that gets into your audio system and screws up the sound if you try to combine audio and video. (Even the really old tube-type TV sets used a primitive switching power supply with a "flyback" transformer to generate the HV needed for the CRT.) It is *possible* to avoid these problems, but only by using very specialized (and expensive) equipment.
This is not to say that a good preamp doesn't make a big difference. (In my experience, *everything* makes a difference!) I'm just noting that your comparison wasn't totally a fair one.
Very good thought, although the effect could be very system dependent. The sound in my reference system seems best when using the optical digital output of the television for cable programs - no line level analog connection at all. Other analog sources are routed directly to the preamplifier, avoiding the possibility of contamination altogether.
I am of the opinion that once you get to a certain level, the preamp can be the single most important piece in the chain for musical enjoyment.
I have found that once you reach a certain level, "less is more" when selecting a preamp(if any at all), they just tend to get in the way. With less sophisticated equipment, I find you need the help of a preamp to make things sound more palatable.
I agree with most of what you’re saying, but can’t imagine those with SOTA actives likes of an Einstein, Blowtorch, etc. have less sophisticated systems. I think a very good preamp is one that can control the volume and get the signal across without screwing it up, but the ones that can somehow make things more real are better. The way I see it, choosing between something that does nothing or something boils down to user preferences and the balance of the system.
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
I do agree that for many systems, it does make sense to do away with an active linestage if the gain, control flexibility, ease of use, etc. of a linestage are not needed. On a price/performance basis, it is hard to beat using a CDP's built in volume control or a good transformer or resistor-based passive volume control.It can be quite challenging to find an active linestage that works well in a system -- results are not easily predictable. I've heard a lot of very pricey linestages that performed badly IN A PARTICULAR SYSTEM.
But, all of the truly outstanding systems I've heard utilize active linestages, even when gain from the source and input and output impedance was not an issue. Microdynamics are more realistic when an appropriate active stage is utilized.
Of course, the big caveat is that a compatible linestage must be found and that can be harder to do than with any other electronics, except perhaps, a phono stage. A good CDP sounds good in just about any system it is put into, and, amps tend to have a particular sound regardless of the other upstream components. But, linestages are trickier to optimize because some differences are subtle, and often the result is unpredictable -- a linestage that sounded terrific in one system can sound quite mediocre in another.
So, I agree with you that less can be more, but if cost is not a big limitation, and if one has the persistence and the ability to audition candidates at home, I think active linestages can make a positive contribution to a system.
I have such a button on my HK integrated amp.When I press that the volume goes down and the preamp controls dont work.This means that the preamp is bypassed.I have been testing this over a long time now and I am surprised that the sound without the preamp is worse.I always thought that a minimal preamp was the best thing.As you said,it is not.I was planning to get a Creek passive preamp but now I have second thoughts.Regards
Agreed! THe moment I ditched an external pre, things got better!
*
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
.
You've just had an epiphany. Many folks don't realize how important the preamp is. A bad preamp just kills the magic regardless of how good your speakers and source are.You're probably experiencing a bit of synergistic matching with the rest of your components too.
Bill
Safe to say though put the money into Speakers and amp first then worry about the preamp
Everything matters. I used to recommend with the best electronics but now I can see it from the opposite end too. In either case, the best sound is only as good as its weakest link. A bad preamp will kill the sound even if everything else is stellar.On the other hand, if you have really high resolution speakers then it will be easier to discern the differences in electronics. When you audition different sources, amplifiers, etc at home, the differences should be more clear with more resolute speakers. If you start with the best speakers you can get, you'll get the electronics upgrade urge sooner.
Back in the late 80's, you really had to spend some money to get decent sound. Back then, starting with the electronics was more important. Today's lower end electronics are a fair amount better so I cannot convincingly advocate one way or the other other than to state; Everything Matters.
Bill
"Safe to say though put the money into Speakers and amp first then worry about the preamp"I gotta disagree, a decent preamplifier opened my eyes to good-sounding hifi, a bad one will strangle the life out of the accompanying amplifier. I personally will rate the preamplifier higher than the power amplifier, provided the amplifier can drive the load.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
I say put the money into the power amp and speakers first, match the 2 with the preamp after you live with the combo for a while. as important preamp is it would be money much better spent on a top notch front end, again preamp last
In fact the preamp is pretty important! It has to handle the incoming signals (line, phono), control volume, provide missing gain (sometimes) and control the interconnect cable .In fact you can get away with murder if the front end signal is clean enough. Just try a cheap microphone with a great recorder as opposed to a great microphone into a cheap recorder and you will see what I mean. The front end signal has to be intact!
you can't make gold outta dog sh**!!
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
The power amp must be capable of driving the speakers, but so long as that match is done correctly, the preamp has a lot more to do with how the system will sound.In my opinion, as far as priority on price/quality:
1. Speakers
2. Preamp
3. Source components
4. Power amp (but the power amp and speakers must work together)
I'm sure you're right about the synergy. The RIAA pre amp is the well known shunt feedback design, the power amps are the JLH monos. They must get on well together. But I'm sure the AVI has some sort of component degradation issue as well (it's going on the test bed this summer - though it may be a component like an IC which could prove impossible to replace.
I might have opted for the passive control (which I still have) since the phono pre will drive a line and the Meridian CD will drive anything but this would have meant a domestic reshuffle - I have about six meters of cable between the front end and the monoblocks/ speakers - it's darn good cable (maplin silver co-ax) but that's just too far for a passive. And I like the way things are now with the gubbins out of view. And I'm enjoying my eppyfunny, or happyfannie, or whatever it is !
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