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Original Message

The Search for Theo's Clock...

Posted by gjwAudio on November 20, 2008 at 22:29:58:
Hi Theo

Since we are going off in a direction tangent to the original "BNC Mod for Juli@" thread - please allow me to start anew, and engage the help of all the Lurkers reading these posts.

To begin, let's jump off from the old discussion:
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OK Grant after one day of listening to external clock I'm convinced. Besides the M audio product that I missed on ebay what else is out there, that is reasonably priced, that provides clocks up to 192?

Clocks matter: Panasonic DVD player good, Oppo 980 not good... what is this all about? There was a clear difference between Panasonic dvd player (circa 1998) and Oppo 980 (circa 2008) and internal Juli@ clock (in between). I don't understand. Anybody understand this?

Maybe its all a matter of clock circuit or power supply to the clock circuit. I dunno but I'll tell you the Panasonic is in for the long term till I can replace with a better one.
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Let me preface these remarks: With respect to the current marketplace, I am not Omnipotent in all current offerings ...AND... do not confuse me with a Real Expert - I'm only reporting on my experiences.

OK... Let The Games Begin !

To all Engaged Readers:
Please post your suggestions/ discoveries/ or explanations of any component you think will meet Theo's criteria. Through collaboration - many eyes in many places - we may yet find the right box for the job.

As I understand it, the device should be 192 KHz-capable via S/PDIF coax, cause the Juli@ to sound better than it does using it's internal oscillator, and be of "reasonable" cost (whatever that means). That is our task...

One fundamental difficulty with The Quest: manufacturers don't see what you need as a product category - a Good, Cheap, Standalone Clock Source. This sort of thing is crucial in the pro recording environment - and priced accordingly - for the excellent performance it delivers. What's a home user gonna do with a $300 clock ?

Theo:
I'm curious at what SR you made these comparisons ? How do you get the DVD players to output anything other than their standard 48 KHz?

I believe you need to find a "reasonable" A-to-D converter - that can run at 192 KHz... and provides S/PDIF coax output to drive the Juli@. Sure... let's think about that.

Here's an interesting note: in both public forums and private correspondence, Elias Gwinn (development engineer at Benchmark) states that chip makers have yet to get 176/192 conversion right. He recommends 96 KHz max for recording, based on the accuracy of current clock circuits. This leads me to believe most pedestrian prosumer A/D units will not shine at the upper SRs. (don't confuse recording@192 with the upsampling done in cPlay)

At sub-KiloBuck prices, you're looking at prosumer/home recording solutions. Most of these connect to the computer via USB, or Firewire... narry an S/PDIF output in sight.

If you're really stuck on 176/192 playback from cPlay, you've got a challenge. Most home recordists don't care about 176/192... 96 KHz is a big deal already. And they just want to plug the damn thing in and go - maybe with their desktop at home and notebook on the road - which means either USB or Firewire - forget PCI and breakout boxes. And THAT'S who the designers are aiming for.

The USB Duo - not to be confused with any current M-Audio offering - was unique (to my knowledge) as being 3 things in one: standalone analogue mic pre-amp, standalone A/D converter via S/PDIF, and directly-USB-connected duplex digital I/O interface.

You need that Duo thing - but running up to 192 KHz. Anybody out there seen one ? I know I haven't (but I've been wrong at least once before).

So Theo, is that enough damage for one post ? I better get off it now so the cMP-ers can scout and report The Grail really does exist !

Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!