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Tweakers' Asylum Tweaks for systems, rooms and Do It Yourself (DIY) help. FAQ. |
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Tweakers' Asylum Tweaks for systems, rooms and Do It Yourself (DIY) help. FAQ. |
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In Reply to: Re: What geometry are S&B 102 transformers? posted by Quiet Earth on March 16, 2007 at 20:38:03:
Hi,Meanwhile I have found out that the S&B trannies are EI core too.
EI cores are much cheaper to produce than double-C core, especially if a better material than plain iron is used. S&B uses nickel/permalloy or something like that, not sure.
My interest was based on a curiosity if S&B TX-102 is the best you can use when building a TVC or not.
My suspicion was raised after testing a DIY made TVC with double-C core that sounded clearly better in both subjective (listening pleasure / enjoyment) and absolute terms (more extension in extremes, both HF & LF, more micro & macro dynamic) than an EI-core based commercial product apparently very close in sonics to MF.
This was verified by a bland test performed to a panel of 4 neutral and exprienced audiophiles with clearly no interest in any of the products, except for a plain joy. As I am the owner of the production unit too, I wished it was a winner but it wasn't.
I know several people who sold their MF TVCs after they heard a mentioned product that, because it is 5-6x cheaper and very close in sound. As it was clearly inferior to a DIY TVC with C-cores I was wondering what would happen if we would have the MF TVC to try it.
As MF is usually cosidered a benchmark for TVCs, I am really curious to know if S&B actually compromised some sonic qualities of TX-102 because of production restrictions. What leads me into this direction is EI cores and size of the trannies (old school of thinking says that trannies has to be bigger to have a fuller sound and good freq. extension, as proved in case of another DIY TVC).
If this is the case, why going for a product that is being promoted as the closest you can get to the original sound, when you can actually get substantially closer with just a little more effort in finding someone to wind you a trannie according to well known rules. Every transformer expert will tell you a difference between EI and double C core trannie and why the latter by rule sounds better if properly wound, taking a good care about a balance between a size of the cores and a number of windings.
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Follow Ups
- Re: What geometry are S&B 102 transformers? - gordan 07:30:37 03/17/07 (9)
- I aproach it as a listener too. - Quiet Earth 10:07:20 03/18/07 (5)
- My experience with a DIY TVC is not relevant because it is just a prototype - gordan 15:47:55 03/18/07 (4)
- Making one, maybe two. Making 1000? - Quiet Earth 10:15:33 03/19/07 (1)
- I fully agree - gordan 11:24:26 03/19/07 (0)
- Re: My experience with a DIY TVC is not relevant because it is just a prototype - Owen 02:39:08 03/19/07 (1)
- Re: My experience with a DIY TVC is not relevant because it is just a prototype - gordan 03:55:49 03/19/07 (0)
- Re: What geometry are S&B 102 transformers? - mqracing 09:58:58 03/17/07 (2)
- i know nothing about transformers, i am just a listener:) - gordan 10:45:24 03/17/07 (1)
- Re: i know nothing about transformers, i am just a listener:) - Owen 02:31:45 03/19/07 (0)
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