Some things we might agree on

thanks for your response Kurt,

I took issue with the statement about bass for many reasons, but probably the least of which is hum modulating the signal via the plate or grid supply (if that is what you are referring to)- in a well designed supply, this should not be an issue with a SE amplifier (esp parafeed). Similarly, there are many PP amplifiers built with less than ideal transformers/ matched tubes.

There are many SE amps which give up nothing to SS or tube PP amps with regard to bass response/detail/impact/clarity/weight- with the right transformers and speakers of course. And that's one reason not to generalize about amplifiers in isolation to the task you give them- and generalizing without mentioning the transformers used is to ignore a vital element in an amplifier's performance.

Which leads me to my final point for the interests of not dragging this into a SS vs Tubes debate (ie that there is something dislikeable with "the SS sound"- you describe it as sterile, but I have never read a satifactory definition of "tube" sound, and the archives are full of such discussions without any consensus beyond personal preference)- that these generalizations are only valid IF you accept the "all else being equal" premise.

"All else being equal" is a false premise for amplifier topology and triode/ pentode /( and esp. SS comparisons). Clearly, all else cannot be equal- from the design to the tube to the transformer to the driver to the splitter etc.- far too many variables to categorically state that all or most X type amplifers must have a particular sound (perhaps even worse are comparisons based on price,such as a $1K SET compared to $1K pp, but this is probably a substantial consideration when people shop for a new amplifier).

If the premise for "All else being equal" was to be summarized as " no compromise" (ie one designer/mfgr's no compromise PP compared to another's no compromise SE), then you are talking about the exceptional amplifers- tube or SS- which provide the highest levels of listening performance.

Which means you get back to talking about real amplifiers- not how a theory sounds, but as I said previously, about discussing a component based on its merit.

Sure- there are some generalizations which are helpful- such as listening for oneself is the only way to discover one's preferences, or to always consider an amplifier's performance with regard to the speaker it is driving, and the quality of an amplifier's components and construction play a large part in the performance of that amplifier.

Perhaps we can agree on that much ?

regards,

john

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - push-pull triode vs single ended triode - c3conv 23:52:02 07/25/02 (21)

"regardless of speakers" - newbee 09:05:39 07/26/02 (0)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - Andrewbee 07:39:01 07/26/02 (0)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - Robert H. 06:26:35 07/26/02 (0)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - akshobhyavajra 05:03:04 07/26/02 (2)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - beatones 06:40:43 07/26/02 (1)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - akshobhyavajra 06:50:57 07/26/02 (0)

Re: push-pull triode vs single ended triode - Oscillatus 01:53:40 07/26/02 (14)

guitar amps - steven oda 11:07:24 07/27/02 (0)

Which PP pentode amps sound like solid state ? - john dem 08:07:18 07/26/02 (12)

Re: Which PP pentode amps sound like solid state ? - Oscillatus 20:27:12 07/26/02 (11)

Why do you think your prejudices are helpful ? - john dem 21:49:19 07/26/02 (2)

Gee, I thought this forum was moderated. - Oscillatus 00:18:56 07/27/02 (1)

Have you ever been fired from a Shinola factory ? - john dem 11:38:15 07/27/02 (0)

Re: Which PP pentode amps sound like solid state ? - Kurt Strain 21:14:18 07/26/02 (7)

Re: Which PP pentode amps sound like solid state ? - john dem 22:21:03 07/26/02 (6)

Let me respond to the original posting, and you can still disagree if you want. - Kurt Strain 11:03:28 07/27/02 (3)

Hmmm.... - Oscillatus 17:19:24 07/27/02 (0)

Some things we might agree on - john dem 14:08:22 07/27/02 (1)

I'm not sure we're disagreeing except on perspective taken. - Kurt Strain 15:23:56 07/27/02 (0)

Well, if PP sounds like SS, I have been screwed for years... - Robert H. 07:07:58 07/27/02 (1)

Sorry, I am not inclined to react to your flaming. <nt> - Oscillatus 07:11:31 07/27/02 (0)

Follow Ups

Some things we might agree on - john dem 14:08:22 07/27/02 (1)

I'm not sure we're disagreeing except on perspective taken. - Kurt Strain 15:23:56 07/27/02 (0)

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