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Tubes Asylum Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ |
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Tubes Asylum Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ |
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In Reply to: Can a 300B or 2A3 amp "rock"? posted by Mike on September 25, 1999 at 22:57:54:
First of all 2A3's, 300B's, and OTL's have apparent drawbacks. However one can deal with them at other levels in the system. As matching components to these type of amplifiers is crucial.Sure anyone can put a system together out of even big brute amplifers and it can sound bad because of poor matches and decisions. However 2A3', 300B's and OTL's require a bit more attention to detail. As they will work less well. Poorly in some cases.
For instance all three of the highly refined amplifers above require speaker matching on a level that most never understand. With it being a more intimate mating. On the other hand I've seen many people using 300B amplifiers with the wrong speakers and still enjoying their system. I, myself, can't help but think that there is more potential to be untapped.
2A3's, 300B's, and OTL's require a flat impedance curve. Meaning the flatter the better. Also they all prefer high impedances of 8 and even 16 Ohm loads. They will power some 4 and even 2 Ohm loads but need for the impedance to be flat. With as little fluctuation from nominal to minimal impedance as possible. The flatter the better. The flatter the more the amplifer will relax and sip wine from your glass and seduce you.
Sensitivity is what splits the three apart. OTL's can power a lot of less sensitive speakers. As long as the impedance is flat. While some Atmasphere owners may not agree. OTL's in general need a speaker with a decent impedance curve. Unless you don't want to extract all that you can from them.
300B's usually provide anywhere from 6-15 watts in general. Allowing them to power a lot of speakers but you have a bit of flexibility. As you can go as low as the late 80's. However it is best to keep that sensitivity above 90 if possible. Then again it depends on how flat of an impedance the speaker has and optimal listening level + the room in question. Then again they also sing with high effecient speaker!
2A3's require even more attention. While I like that many are interested in them. I have to say it is very bold stepping into a 2A3 for a first SET experiance. I think they require the most patience. What I mean is one needs to know a lot about the cream and how it works. Many who jump the gun are going to be dissapointed (rather/may be...). Unless one is willing to take mixing and matching to the highest level. Giving these amplifers attention is crucial in extracting what they can do. One needs to do a lot of research to understand them.
As I have seen many many mis-matched 300B amplifers and when I have seen people disappointed with a 2A3's, it usually stems from the fact that the synergy of their system was not up to par. Hey, even many of the stores that display such refined jems don't have the proper speakers to allow for these beauties to sing.
2A3's require a sensitivity of 96db or greater. Some will say a little less. Which can be done with a few speakers and depending on what volumes you listen to. In reality one should try and hit 96db+ and the impedance curve also needs to again be as flat as possible.
Now I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm trying to be honest. SET's require attention. They love attention to detail. They will reward you for this very thing. However one must remember the first watt is the best watt. Why would you want to push your SET? Why make her work hard? Letting her relax will bring out the best of her attributes.
Flatter impedance and highly sensitive speakers play more effortlessly. They have an unforced sound that leaves one feeling emotional upon start of the music. They tend to draw you in and be more musical. Leaving the system in question on and walking out of the room won't work. As you will be drawn and seduced to return to hear every note.
I'm unfamiliar with the A/D/S L9E. Without knowledge of how flat of an impedance curve is present I can't say how they would love either OTL's or 300B's. 2A3's probably won't work well (check these babies off unless you arew willing to swap speakers). One thing is that the 4 Ohm nominal impedance leaves one wondering how demanding these speakers are. The question is do they boast a realitivly flat impedance?
Now you state that you have auditioned "regular solid state bruisers". However you only give one example. That being Adcom. IMHO one could do a lot better when thinking ss. There are many many other options. In the future there will be many more refined examples. For now you need to dig to find the good stuff. The mass market doesn't understand refinedment. They want home theatres with 1000"s of whistles and bells.
Also what other push-pulls have you heard? As you either love the Mac's or hate them. I must note that many of the "well known" push-pulls sound more like solidstate to my ears. Offering little to alsmost none of the tube sound many here enjoy. Yet using lot's of tubes to do what they do. What a waste.
Have you considered a low powered push pull? Yes, there are a few few few examples of push pull amplifiers out there that may be better suited to your tastes. I'm not sure about the speakers though. For instance the Sun Audio SV-2A3PE and SV-300B MKII. Both are pp's. One uses 2A3's and boasts a whopping 15 watts and the other uses 300B's in a pp configuration and puts out 20 watts. These should offer high refinement and power many of todays speakers. A middle ground so to speak.
I lived with the Welborne Apollo's for six months. I wired them w/silver and used silver output trannys'. These were very refinded and would drive many speakers. They were very dynamic and yes very extended both in bass and treble. They had the delicacy of low powered SET's however they boasted and could sing as loud as amplifers rated with 2-4 times as much power. Very detailed and transparent.In the end take your time. It seems like you have auditioned a limited amount of amplifers. You could try and hear more. This is a good place to start. Or.........you could try and find the truth (this is a harder road). That being that you don't need to spend $30,000+ on a system to achieve a high level of musicality. I have been there and I'm also far from there as we speak. Yet, the musicality and rightness is far more involving than it has ever been.
Take your time and do a lot of research. In the end it will pay off. Your ear will thank you for it and your soul will be touched like never before. As reproduction of music need not be cold and anilitical. It can be warm, detailed beyond anything you have heard, pure liquid, with the biggest pinch of smoothness to boot. A recipe for many late night and for much enjoyment.
Happy Listening.
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Follow Ups
- DO A Deer a female deer......... - Bryan F. 06:55:08 09/26/99 (6)
- One who does does is likely quite confused! (nt) - Dave VH 10:00:45 09/27/99 (1)
- lol...(nt) - Bryan F. 12:11:41 09/27/99 (0)
- Re: DO A Deer a female deer......... - FRANK 11:05:48 09/26/99 (0)
- Forgot the "E" in DO?? - Bryan F. 07:04:26 09/26/99 (2)
- Re: Forgot the "E" in DO?? - Mike 10:12:49 09/26/99 (1)
- Re: Forgot the "E" in DO?? - Bryan F. 15:12:55 09/26/99 (0)
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