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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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In Reply to: RE: Seriously? posted by Analog Scott on September 2, 2012 at 13:25:51:
"You claimed it supported your assertion of objective "wrongness" of Yuja Wang's rhythms."
It does, and yes, I did, after you had raised the question. I did not, however, make that claim at the time I posted it, as you will see if you look at my post.
It does because it's an example of great jazz playing. It doesn't in the sense that it's not the same arrangement, note for note, although as you yourself pointed out, the issue isn't note-by-note reproduction of the interpretation -- nobody would be expected to do that, or could. Rather, it's about a musically valid interpretation.
I've heard a lot of jazz played by lots of great artists, and to my ears, it has almost always had that validity. To my ears, Wang's doesn't. I could have put up a recording of Louis Armstrong and made the same point -- here's great jazz, played as it should be played.
"I think it is pretty safe to say that her knowledge of jazz runs much deeper than your garden just a basic familiarity. And as such it is quite reasonable that if there were objective "rhythmic anomalies" that you claim are "obvious" that someone with Sasha Masakowski's training, knowledge and experience would recognize it."
I agree with the first, not the second. You're still making an argument from authority.
I realized, after reading a paper online, that the numbness I'd been experiencing in my fingers and toes was the consequence of my sleep apnea. This after three different doctors, including a neurologist who conducted nerve conduction tests, failed to make the diagnosis. These men all knew far more about medicine than I do.
Arguments from authority don't mean much.
"[Tchaikovsky] made objective claims of 'wrongness?' I'd like to read up on those claims. Do you have any references?"
http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/people/brahms_johannes.html
"I really don't think you are going to be picking up on "obviously wrong rhythms" that are being missed by a working musician with a degree in jazz studies."
You will never get anywhere if you persist in arguing from authority, or its converse. They are logical fallacies.
To understand an issue, one must discuss the issue, not the people discussing the issue. It's as simple as tha
"You can not rely on your familiarity with jazz as support of this assertion now that we have testimony of two musicians that run contrary to your claims."
I have never relied on my familiarity of jazz as a support of this assertion. You seem unable to get away from seeing this in terms of authority. That is a logical fallacy. I have tried to show you why, using as an example one of the greatest musical geniuses, and his bone-headed characterizations of Bach and Brahm.
">> What makes Schnabel's performance of the Hammerklavier so compelling?>>
"1. There is no consensus that is compelling"
Actually, I suspect very much that there is: Schnabel's playing of late Beethoven is widely considered peerless and I'm one of many who consider his Beethoven Society recordings the greatest recording project ever. But what if there weren't? What difference would that make? You keep seeing this in terms of authority.
"Again, I have no issue with your taste. That is entirely subjective. If you had stopped at 'I don't like it' or 'it doesn't work for me.' We would have never had this discussion. I don't argue taste. It is one thing not to like a particular tempo or phrasing. It's another to say it is 'wrong'."
I don't like it and in my judgment it is wrong, like an umbrella made of Swiss cheese, or a two-legged stool. You can quote every authority in the world but that wouldn't affect my judgment. You -- or they -- would have to say something that actually changes my understanding to do that. Arguments from authority don't. If I am willing to disagree with the likes of Tchaikovsky and Wagner about Brahms, why would the opinion of two musicians, however esteemed, change my mind about Wang's Tatum?
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Follow Ups
- RE: Seriously? - josh358 14:57:48 09/02/12 (0)
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