My point is that Kubelik and that other guy, two among many, capture the spirit of the music better without

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Topic - Wow! Here's a reviewer who really knows what the story is with HIP! - Chris from Lafayette 02:18:23 04/13/21 (124)

I could not agree more with him - Analog Scott 17:48:17 04/14/21 (28)

It's a good thing Monteverdi, Bach, Mozart and Beethoven didn't know that! nt - oldmkvi 08:51:14 04/15/21 (17)

What makes you think they didn't know that? - Analog Scott 13:24:15 04/15/21 (4)

Well, history is history, but I'm curious... - SE 04:50:18 04/16/21 (3)

"I have read that Beethoven wanted more from the keyboard instruments of his time" - Chris from Lafayette 11:42:16 04/16/21 (0)

Histoy is sketchy at best and rarely tells us what people actually thought - Analog Scott 07:11:15 04/16/21 (1)

Thanks for the reply. n/t - SE 12:08:51 04/16/21 (0)

That very point was addressed (at least with respect to Bach and Beethoven). . . - Chris from Lafayette 10:08:56 04/15/21 (0)

Yes, but the quickest way to getting a spot on the Sunday morning news shows is to reduce a complex, diverse - jdaniel@jps.net 09:04:05 04/15/21 (10)

On my worst days, I feel like we are living in the age of Anti-Enlightenment... - SE 05:01:00 04/16/21 (9)

Oh - you mean like with "cancel culture"? There's a thread about that further below! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:46:28 04/16/21 (4)

You want to cancel HIP, right? : ) I'm in awe of your confidence and certainty, but.... - jdaniel@jps.net 12:36:08 04/16/21 (3)

Funny that you can't seem to make the distinction between. . . - Chris from Lafayette 16:29:04 04/16/21 (2)

"Carefully selected the aspects of HIP that I object to." (Excuse me as I move out of the way of the pendulum! - jdaniel@jps.net 16:44:28 04/16/21 (1)

Urtext scores, correct performance of embellishments. . . - Chris from Lafayette 17:01:35 04/16/21 (0)

"They're coming for your drums!!" Sounds familiar, doesn't it? : ) - jdaniel@jps.net 08:31:27 04/16/21 (3)

OK, jdaniel - that WAS clever! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:45:01 04/16/21 (2)

Have to admit, it still makes me laugh. HIP News: Chris Reports, Chris Decides. : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 12:37:54 04/16/21 (1)

(That was less clever) [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 16:29:52 04/16/21 (0)

After everything in this long thread, I think we need a HIP replacement!... - SE 21:58:30 04/14/21 (9)

RE: You rang? - B. Scarpia 07:27:55 04/15/21 (0)

Better yet, a Marais Moment! - jdaniel@jps.net 06:21:30 04/15/21 (5)

So I watched that video, and what did I see and hear? - Chris from Lafayette 12:07:14 04/15/21 (4)

may I humbly offer this from the maestro of the gamba... - oldvinyl 20:12:23 04/15/21 (0)

I never said *all* HIP performances use vibrato, that's your binary thing going on again. Sorry you found it - jdaniel@jps.net 12:34:28 04/15/21 (2)

No reason for you to put words in my mouth - Chris from Lafayette 12:59:29 04/15/21 (1)

Well, I just bought that whole Marais Ricercar set. Wouldn't have stumbled across it had you not posted. : ) - jdaniel@jps.net 18:04:34 04/15/21 (0)

RE: After everything in this long thread, I think we need a HIP replacement!... - Analog Scott 00:28:39 04/15/21 (0)

RE: After everything in this long thread, I think we need a HIP replacement!... - rivervalley817 22:12:24 04/14/21 (0)

RE: Wow! Here's a reviewer who really knows what the story is with HIP! - dgaapc7 14:34:45 04/14/21 (3)

Taxes submitted earlier today - and accepted! (Hopefully one less thing to worry about!) [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 01:39:52 04/16/21 (0)

Ah, the IRS...talk about an ancient instrument!:-)... - SE 21:55:58 04/14/21 (1)

RE: Ah, the IRS...talk about an ancient instrument!:-)... - rivervalley817 22:06:00 04/14/21 (0)

Either I like the sound, or I don't. - peppy m. 16:58:26 04/13/21 (32)

+1 LOL! TOO funny! (nt) - TWB 19:44:02 04/13/21 (31)

I'm neither HIP or Modern. I just like sound. - peppy m. 09:28:37 04/14/21 (30)

Agreed (nt) - TWB 15:58:22 04/14/21 (0)

So. . . do you like performances from elementary school orchestras? - Chris from Lafayette 11:47:25 04/14/21 (28)

Do you like the corporate sound of Fischer's Budapest? Well-executed but mostly bland and charmless? - jdaniel@jps.net 05:49:33 04/15/21 (15)

No non sequitur at all - Chris from Lafayette 10:16:44 04/15/21 (4)

Point was that the "unique" sound of school bands is an issue of poor execution, (on modern instruments, : ) - jdaniel@jps.net 10:38:57 04/15/21 (3)

As I mentioned below. . . - Chris from Lafayette 12:01:49 04/15/21 (0)

And BTW, did you really think that Marais piece above was "soulless "? - jdaniel@jps.net 11:06:55 04/15/21 (1)

I think you've chosen wisely to bow out! ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:43:34 04/15/21 (0)

His performances are soulless IMO... (nt) - TWB 09:58:45 04/15/21 (9)

Which performances? Which parts? What constitutes soullessness? [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 10:18:36 04/15/21 (8)

Follow Fischer's Mahler by Kubelik's, or his Beethoven by...dare I say it? Sch...... : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 10:56:50 04/15/21 (7)

You're hardly making the point you think you're making - Chris from Lafayette 12:25:51 04/15/21 (6)

My point is that Kubelik and that other guy, two among many, capture the spirit of the music better without - jdaniel@jps.net 13:05:21 04/15/21 (1)

OK - I don't have a problem with that - Chris from Lafayette 13:10:13 04/15/21 (0)

Just taking the Budapest string section alone, imho they don't seem very unified in purpose or direction - jdaniel@jps.net 12:53:21 04/15/21 (3)

Well, that's another one of your singular opinions again - Chris from Lafayette 13:07:37 04/15/21 (2)

I meant to delete that post, as such carelessly-tossed blanket statements aren't worthy of a forum like this, - jdaniel@jps.net 15:03:11 04/15/21 (1)

I agree with you that the LAPO string section is excellent - Chris from Lafayette 01:34:06 04/16/21 (0)

I'll probably like some things in almost any performance... - peppy m. 17:30:58 04/14/21 (10)

Agreed. But that means actually listening to and living with the music, as opposed to writing about a snippet - jdaniel@jps.net 06:17:53 04/15/21 (4)

Oh! The irony! - Chris from Lafayette 10:22:36 04/15/21 (2)

We've been through this before as well. Tell me again that YouTube is incapable of capturing tempo, rubato, - jdaniel@jps.net 10:52:57 04/15/21 (1)

Hmm. . . you're pegging the bum-rap meter - Chris from Lafayette 12:55:57 04/15/21 (0)

Why couldn't it be either thing ? - peppy m. 08:58:14 04/15/21 (0)

Hey - if "anything goes" works for you, who am I to try to change your mind? [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:44:06 04/15/21 (4)

Actually, it's less about "anything goes" and more about "endless possibility"... - peppy m. 08:53:06 04/15/21 (3)

Some of us don't need to be helped or forced [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 10:25:10 04/15/21 (2)

True ! Some of us have made up our minds in advance. - peppy m. 15:53:30 04/15/21 (1)

I wouldn't know [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 01:35:34 04/16/21 (0)

"Yes sir, and where would you like all these shovels delivered?" nt - tinear 16:06:01 04/14/21 (0)

Why do you care? Every Baroque Group un the Bay Area is HIP, incl - oldmkvi 12:10:12 04/13/21 (31)

That is exactly why some of us care! - Analog Scott 17:50:41 04/14/21 (1)

Try Latry's "Bach to the Future." It'll blow the bag of peanuts right out of your hand. : ) - jdaniel@jps.net 21:28:23 04/14/21 (0)

RE: Want a laugh? Google HIP Clarinet (yt) - B. Scarpia 13:53:02 04/13/21 (0)

Sinfonia Baroque? You mean PHILHARMONIA Baroque? - Chris from Lafayette 13:02:44 04/13/21 (27)

RE: Sinfonia Baroque? You mean PHILHARMONIA Baroque? - Mali 14:22:07 04/13/21 (26)

It might have run it's course for HIM... - SE 14:45:07 04/13/21 (25)

RE: It might have run it's course for HIM... - Mali 19:57:31 04/13/21 (11)

Well, if you like dead, vibratoless string tone and toy pianos. . . - Chris from Lafayette 01:45:42 04/14/21 (10)

Not dead to me, but I draw the line at keyboard instruments. - Mali 13:43:18 04/14/21 (6)

Angela Hewitt vs. a harpsichordist? OMG! What a Scylla and Charybdis! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 16:42:21 04/14/21 (5)

RE: Angela Hewitt vs. a harpsichordist? OMG! What a Scylla and Charybdis! [nt] ;-) - Mali 18:36:52 04/14/21 (4)

Chris is like Puck, and that is OK... - SE 03:15:25 04/16/21 (1)

"Hewitt is working on Beethoven's Hammerklavier" - Chris from Lafayette 11:50:11 04/16/21 (0)

Chris is not wishy-washy on anything musical... - srl1 18:44:48 04/14/21 (1)

"he would actually have to listen to it before he writes the review" - Chris from Lafayette 01:46:28 04/15/21 (0)

If the only 5-channel keyboard release available happened to feature a "toy piano," I'm sure you'd find a way - jdaniel@jps.net 08:34:14 04/14/21 (2)

Nope - even I have standards! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:28:45 04/14/21 (0)

:-) /n - Ivan303 09:19:33 04/14/21 (0)

C'mon, SE! Why do you need a viola da gamba when you can use a nice cello? [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 18:50:12 04/13/21 (12)

Um...infinitely more expressive timbres? (And that's your cue to claim they're all ugly.) - jdaniel@jps.net 19:41:40 04/13/21 (11)

You know, back in the distant past (before the more extreme strictures of HIP arose). . . - Chris from Lafayette 01:54:08 04/14/21 (10)

So you're saying that no viola da gamba player today employs vibrato? nt - jdaniel@jps.net 07:46:08 04/14/21 (9)

You know some who do? I'm always willing to be learned! - Chris from Lafayette 11:31:51 04/14/21 (8)

We've been through this before. I even posted YouTube vids so you could see as well as hear. Nt - jdaniel@jps.net 11:39:10 04/14/21 (7)

I must not have been impressed [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:51:09 04/14/21 (6)

A finger either jiggles or it doesn't, and you seem to be the resident connoisseur of body parts that jiggle. - jdaniel@jps.net 11:57:39 04/14/21 (5)

It's a terrible responsibility, but somebody has to do it! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 16:46:57 04/14/21 (4)

Honestly, a true and worthy purpose for a Moderator... - SE 22:04:51 04/14/21 (3)

RE: Honestly, a true and worthy purpose for a Moderator... - rivervalley817 22:09:20 04/14/21 (2)

Why not? Honestly, location should never be a priority... - SE 05:09:36 04/15/21 (1)

RE: Why not? Honestly, location should never be a priority... - rivervalley817 10:26:57 04/15/21 (0)

Ain't there an extension? nt - tinear 10:01:25 04/13/21 (2)

RE: Ain't there an extension? nt - Ivan303 10:44:00 04/13/21 (1)

Awkward as hell to play, it appears... nt - tinear 10:47:36 04/13/21 (0)

Binary thinking goes faster than Turbo Tax. : ) To which HIP school, era, style is the reviewer referring? n - jdaniel@jps.net 07:23:42 04/13/21 (1)

I think there's a reference to 18th century, early 19th century - Chris from Lafayette 10:45:30 04/13/21 (0)

The Reviewer doesn't know how to think... - SE 04:48:53 04/13/21 (18)

You'll have to elaborate on your first sentence - Chris from Lafayette 11:01:33 04/13/21 (11)

early wind instruments sucked when blown - DrChaos 16:50:44 04/14/21 (0)

No matter... - SE 14:35:30 04/13/21 (9)

You...you mean...there's a middle ground? Not allowed! nt - jdaniel@jps.net 21:04:28 04/13/21 (7)

That's right, jdaniel - for those who listen with docile contentedness, anything goes [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 02:02:57 04/14/21 (6)

Listen to what with docile contentedness? nt - jdaniel@jps.net 07:44:58 04/14/21 (5)

To HIP (You lose the thread or something?) [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:33:23 04/14/21 (4)

Which HIP? It's 70 years old with many branches, hybrids, styles, etc. from orthodox to cafeteria Catholic - jdaniel@jps.net 11:54:33 04/14/21 (3)

Read the thread - I think I've defined my terms - Chris from Lafayette 17:06:58 04/14/21 (2)

First of all, "toy pianos" would be too modern for, say, "Marais," right? (Not all HIP employs Toy Pianos.) - jdaniel@jps.net 20:20:42 04/14/21 (1)

Maybe you're having a hallucination that we've established that? - Chris from Lafayette 01:17:37 04/15/21 (0)

Very good, SE! - I guess it just depends on what one considers as. . . - Chris from Lafayette 18:46:52 04/13/21 (0)

Hear, hear! nt - tinear 10:03:09 04/13/21 (0)

+1 While not much of a fan of the fortepiano - Ivan303 08:01:36 04/13/21 (4)

Same. As for Harpsichords, there are ugly-sounding ones and very beautiful-sounding ones. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 08:35:26 04/13/21 (3)

Sure, I know about the clangsichord and the plucksichord - but which is which? [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 13:22:50 04/13/21 (2)

So you're saying that they all sound bad? nt - jdaniel@jps.net 07:49:07 04/14/21 (1)

You're right that some sound better than others, but. . . - Chris from Lafayette 11:37:42 04/14/21 (0)

Wink wink, nod nod. Wonderful review! (nt) - krisjan 03:45:31 04/13/21 (1)

Only certain posters here, like you, have the erudition to recognize what they're reading! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 13:09:10 04/13/21 (0)

Follow Ups

My point is that Kubelik and that other guy, two among many, capture the spirit of the music better without - jdaniel@jps.net 13:05:21 04/15/21 (1)

OK - I don't have a problem with that - Chris from Lafayette 13:10:13 04/15/21 (0)

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