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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: I don't dismiss measurements, but... posted by Jim Treanor on February 18, 2007 at 12:24:46:
if the measurements of the speaker indicate that it's not capable of repicating the recorded waveform - good or bad, doesn't it follow that's taking us even further away from reality?It appears to me Hardesty is only saying measurements are a starting point. If measurements show a given speaker doesn't have a relatively flat frequency response or other problems, isn't that an indicator that subjective listening would be based on a flawed design and likely that speaker would not provide a rewarding listening experience over time?
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - lenw 11:26:57 02/18/07 (107)
- How it is possible to listen "objectively", anyway? - Abel McCain 11:00:30 02/22/07 (0)
- What a pointless waste of bandwidth!.... - feet's too big 07:37:10 02/21/07 (0)
- Missing from these discussions? It isn't a crime to enjoy one's hifi. - Elmo 00:41:14 02/20/07 (4)
- Is it a crime to use speaker measurements to decide what speakers to audition before you start enjoying the music? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:09:30 02/20/07 (3)
- No, but… - David Aiken 20:12:55 02/20/07 (0)
- Hey, I'm a big fan of the flip-a-coin method! - Bruce Kendall 15:17:24 02/20/07 (0)
- Not illegal. But still a crying shame. - Elmo 09:20:45 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Brian Cheney 18:13:17 02/19/07 (25)
- Inverted logic (oxymoron) - Richard BassNut Greene 07:18:54 02/20/07 (23)
- OUCH! - Vic D 07:04:35 02/21/07 (0)
- Wishful thinking at best - E-Stat 11:42:45 02/20/07 (0)
- Might I humbly suggest you take a course or a read a book - Sordidman 10:22:07 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Inverted logic (oxymoron) - Brian Cheney 09:27:19 02/20/07 (18)
- If you didn't like the sound of the speakers, then how could you say the measurements were good? That makes no sense. - Richard BassNut Greene 08:37:59 02/21/07 (17)
- Re: If you didn't like the sound of the speakers, then how could you say the measurements were good? That makes no sen - Brian Cheney 09:09:00 02/21/07 (16)
- If I were a manufacturer, I would be polite to everyone with my posts. This is obviously not your policy. - Richard BassNut Greene 09:21:53 02/21/07 (15)
- Richard, perhaps the following quote might have some meaning to you: - robert young 10:41:19 02/21/07 (14)
- "Just because you design speakers that get good reviews doesn't mean we have to agree with everything ... you write!" - Richard BassNut Greene 11:39:42 02/21/07 (13)
- Richard, it isn't about Cheney, it's about you. - robert young 11:52:06 02/21/07 (12)
- And your purpose in this thread is to do what? - Richard BassNut Greene 12:26:15 02/21/07 (11)
- My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - robert young 14:47:08 02/21/07 (10)
- "you wouldn't have taken such an aggrwessive stance" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:04:39 02/22/07 (2)
- Always fun to highlight typos, isn't it Nut? - robert young 13:41:42 02/22/07 (1)
- Always like to highlight the most accurate sections of your posts! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:07:38 02/25/07 (0)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Brian Cheney 16:53:03 02/21/07 (6)
- Whoa! Thank you - Sordidman 08:29:45 02/23/07 (0)
- "One must blow pretty hard to make any kind of impression on Mr. Nut, who is so set in his biases and misconceptions..." - Richard BassNut Greene 08:20:45 02/22/07 (0)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Andy.G 19:11:42 02/21/07 (3)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Brian Cheney 19:20:23 02/21/07 (2)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Andy.G 19:49:15 02/21/07 (1)
- Andy you're rattling Cheney's cage too much -- just give him the benefit of the doubt ... - Richard BassNut Greene 09:11:03 02/22/07 (0)
- The real oxymoron ... - Dave Pogue 07:27:25 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:13:46 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Andy_G 16:45:59 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:16:43 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Andy_G 20:43:18 02/19/07 (0)
- Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - mkuller 11:28:24 02/19/07 (1)
- Measurements may help the consumer eliminate some speakers from his audition list.. YES. nt - jensw 12:32:04 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: we don't measure the right things - Ralph 09:38:46 02/19/07 (5)
- I typically agree with Ralph... - Sean 15:21:33 02/19/07 (4)
- Re: Ohm's Law - Ralph 09:32:35 02/20/07 (3)
- Re: definitely some funny "stuff" going on - Bruce from DC 07:31:05 02/21/07 (2)
- Lots of possibilities... - Al Sekela 10:47:54 02/22/07 (0)
- Re: definitely some funny "stuff" going on - john curl 09:40:00 02/21/07 (0)
- What's more important - getting the music right on all recordings or reproducing a live event? - Don T 09:05:37 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - KlausR. 08:30:59 02/19/07 (0)
- Speakers that sound good (above average) almost always have good measurements - Richard BassNut Greene 08:00:19 02/19/07 (0)
- It's not useful... - Jim Austin 07:53:24 02/19/07 (1)
- Agree. For the typical audio enthusiast, - Al Sekela 08:48:31 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - middleground 06:47:49 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements (in-room) vs. Subjective Listening - mikel 06:44:09 02/19/07 (0)
- An example of Jon Risch's second point may be found - M3 lover 22:09:58 02/18/07 (0)
- "He states a speaker is adding distortion if it can't accurately reproduce the waveform from the input recording." - kurt s 21:57:04 02/18/07 (1)
- Re: "He states a speaker is adding distortion if it can't accurately reproduce the waveform from the input recording." - hahax@verizon.net 20:20:00 02/19/07 (0)
- As a professional speaker designer...... - Jon Risch 20:43:45 02/18/07 (15)
- "..you are more likely to be mislead or confused by measurement results ..." -- Condecending attitude toward audiophiles - Richard BassNut Greene 08:36:04 02/19/07 (9)
- Amazing - Jon Risch 21:20:24 02/20/07 (3)
- Re: Amazing - morricab 14:32:13 02/21/07 (1)
- Re: Amazing - Jon Risch 20:36:19 02/21/07 (0)
- Your post is way too long to read but here's a simple example of using measurements for good (me) rather than evil (you) - Richard BassNut Greene 09:08:51 02/21/07 (0)
- Thanks for the reality check.... - Sean 15:25:50 02/19/07 (3)
- They are both right actually - Schu 05:18:28 02/20/07 (2)
- "Jon's (advice) is confidently understated while Richard jams his down your throat like giving a dog a pill." - Richard BassNut Greene 07:35:31 02/20/07 (1)
- Much like you do BassNut, when the subject is subwoofers. NT - franjy 13:59:49 02/20/07 (0)
- Me self [not that anyone aksed (snicker)], could care less how any piece of equipment measures. - Elmo 09:11:57 02/19/07 (0)
- Words of Wisdon Jon - Schu 05:52:06 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: What speakers have you designed? - Jon L5 03:34:47 02/19/07 (2)
- Mr. Risch works for Peavey Electronics - Rob Doorack 05:42:29 02/19/07 (1)
- Peavey heh? That's right! Hey Jon... - Presto 11:28:36 02/19/07 (0)
- Excellent post! Well put! Thank Jon... n/t - Presto 21:01:59 02/18/07 (0)
- Measurements may be very revealing of exceptional performance. - sser2 19:15:08 02/18/07 (4)
- Re :Wide off-axis response - jensw 23:46:38 02/18/07 (3)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - sser2 09:16:30 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - jensw 10:55:50 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - sser2 12:54:37 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - kenster 18:31:29 02/18/07 (5)
- Alnico - Ben P 01:18:11 02/20/07 (2)
- Re: Alnico - kenster 05:37:49 02/20/07 (1)
- Re: Alnico - Ben P 22:40:20 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:23:32 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - kenster 05:31:29 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Mel 18:02:43 02/18/07 (0)
- Measurements are important but. . . - risabet 17:52:52 02/18/07 (0)
- I think you need a balanced approach - Robert Hamel 17:03:56 02/18/07 (1)
- Re: I think you need a balanced approach - hahax@verizon.net 20:25:22 02/19/07 (0)
- FWIW..... - Todd Krieger 16:38:52 02/18/07 (0)
- Here is my take on it... (long) - Presto 16:14:57 02/18/07 (0)
- Sometimes what's easy to measure isn't what really matters - Duke 15:46:31 02/18/07 (0)
- We all hear differently and have different priorities for what is important to us so a more relevant question might be … - three_sox 15:22:06 02/18/07 (0)
- false dichotomies? - CD 14:27:44 02/18/07 (0)
- Basically true... - Sean 12:29:41 02/18/07 (1)
- Excellent response NT - lancelot 15:32:47 02/18/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 12:27:26 02/18/07 (6)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 21:06:12 02/18/07 (3)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 01:44:22 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:11:36 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 22:26:47 02/19/07 (0)
- I agree measurements can be misleading, but - lenw 13:23:01 02/18/07 (0)
- Well said! nt - clarkjohnsen 13:15:37 02/18/07 (0)
- I don't dismiss measurements, but... - Jim Treanor 12:24:46 02/18/07 (2)
- While I agree with what you say................. - lenw 13:12:49 02/18/07 (1)
- Of course... - Jim Treanor 14:24:49 02/18/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Tom Brennan 12:15:29 02/18/07 (0)
- And your goal is? - Peter Gunn 12:14:26 02/18/07 (0)
- And then, there's the parallel issue of amp measurements...nt - tinear 11:39:38 02/18/07 (0)
- Since measurements only partially capture the performance of speakers, they can contribute in a minor way to evaluations - Norm 11:31:13 02/18/07 (1)
- Measurements are something of a *sine qua non*, but they are far from telling the whole story. nt - clarkjohnsen 13:12:53 02/18/07 (0)
Follow Ups
- While I agree with what you say................. - lenw 13:12:49 02/18/07 (1)
- Of course... - Jim Treanor 14:24:49 02/18/07 (0)
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