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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening posted by lenw on February 18, 2007 at 11:26:57:
The problem is there's no accepted agreement on what it is that a speaker should actually do and even if there was agreement they wouldn't agree on how to do it. Sometimes a design that improves one performence aspect will degrade another, compromises are inevitable.So one guy designs along the lines that appeal to him and another guy goes in a different direction because that sounds best to him. Both guys can make sensible arguments for their choices.
So what do you do? Why you go with what sounds good to you, why not?
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - lenw 11:26:57 02/18/07 (107)
- How it is possible to listen "objectively", anyway? - Abel McCain 11:00:30 02/22/07 (0)
- What a pointless waste of bandwidth!.... - feet's too big 07:37:10 02/21/07 (0)
- Missing from these discussions? It isn't a crime to enjoy one's hifi. - Elmo 00:41:14 02/20/07 (4)
- Is it a crime to use speaker measurements to decide what speakers to audition before you start enjoying the music? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:09:30 02/20/07 (3)
- No, but… - David Aiken 20:12:55 02/20/07 (0)
- Hey, I'm a big fan of the flip-a-coin method! - Bruce Kendall 15:17:24 02/20/07 (0)
- Not illegal. But still a crying shame. - Elmo 09:20:45 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Brian Cheney 18:13:17 02/19/07 (25)
- Inverted logic (oxymoron) - Richard BassNut Greene 07:18:54 02/20/07 (23)
- OUCH! - Vic D 07:04:35 02/21/07 (0)
- Wishful thinking at best - E-Stat 11:42:45 02/20/07 (0)
- Might I humbly suggest you take a course or a read a book - Sordidman 10:22:07 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Inverted logic (oxymoron) - Brian Cheney 09:27:19 02/20/07 (18)
- If you didn't like the sound of the speakers, then how could you say the measurements were good? That makes no sense. - Richard BassNut Greene 08:37:59 02/21/07 (17)
- Re: If you didn't like the sound of the speakers, then how could you say the measurements were good? That makes no sen - Brian Cheney 09:09:00 02/21/07 (16)
- If I were a manufacturer, I would be polite to everyone with my posts. This is obviously not your policy. - Richard BassNut Greene 09:21:53 02/21/07 (15)
- Richard, perhaps the following quote might have some meaning to you: - robert young 10:41:19 02/21/07 (14)
- "Just because you design speakers that get good reviews doesn't mean we have to agree with everything ... you write!" - Richard BassNut Greene 11:39:42 02/21/07 (13)
- Richard, it isn't about Cheney, it's about you. - robert young 11:52:06 02/21/07 (12)
- And your purpose in this thread is to do what? - Richard BassNut Greene 12:26:15 02/21/07 (11)
- My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - robert young 14:47:08 02/21/07 (10)
- "you wouldn't have taken such an aggrwessive stance" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:04:39 02/22/07 (2)
- Always fun to highlight typos, isn't it Nut? - robert young 13:41:42 02/22/07 (1)
- Always like to highlight the most accurate sections of your posts! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:07:38 02/25/07 (0)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Brian Cheney 16:53:03 02/21/07 (6)
- Whoa! Thank you - Sordidman 08:29:45 02/23/07 (0)
- "One must blow pretty hard to make any kind of impression on Mr. Nut, who is so set in his biases and misconceptions..." - Richard BassNut Greene 08:20:45 02/22/07 (0)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Andy.G 19:11:42 02/21/07 (3)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Brian Cheney 19:20:23 02/21/07 (2)
- Re: My purpose should have been clear, even to you. - Andy.G 19:49:15 02/21/07 (1)
- Andy you're rattling Cheney's cage too much -- just give him the benefit of the doubt ... - Richard BassNut Greene 09:11:03 02/22/07 (0)
- The real oxymoron ... - Dave Pogue 07:27:25 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:13:46 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Andy_G 16:45:59 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:16:43 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Andy_G 20:43:18 02/19/07 (0)
- Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - mkuller 11:28:24 02/19/07 (1)
- Measurements may help the consumer eliminate some speakers from his audition list.. YES. nt - jensw 12:32:04 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: we don't measure the right things - Ralph 09:38:46 02/19/07 (5)
- I typically agree with Ralph... - Sean 15:21:33 02/19/07 (4)
- Re: Ohm's Law - Ralph 09:32:35 02/20/07 (3)
- Re: definitely some funny "stuff" going on - Bruce from DC 07:31:05 02/21/07 (2)
- Lots of possibilities... - Al Sekela 10:47:54 02/22/07 (0)
- Re: definitely some funny "stuff" going on - john curl 09:40:00 02/21/07 (0)
- What's more important - getting the music right on all recordings or reproducing a live event? - Don T 09:05:37 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - KlausR. 08:30:59 02/19/07 (0)
- Speakers that sound good (above average) almost always have good measurements - Richard BassNut Greene 08:00:19 02/19/07 (0)
- It's not useful... - Jim Austin 07:53:24 02/19/07 (1)
- Agree. For the typical audio enthusiast, - Al Sekela 08:48:31 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - middleground 06:47:49 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements (in-room) vs. Subjective Listening - mikel 06:44:09 02/19/07 (0)
- An example of Jon Risch's second point may be found - M3 lover 22:09:58 02/18/07 (0)
- "He states a speaker is adding distortion if it can't accurately reproduce the waveform from the input recording." - kurt s 21:57:04 02/18/07 (1)
- Re: "He states a speaker is adding distortion if it can't accurately reproduce the waveform from the input recording." - hahax@verizon.net 20:20:00 02/19/07 (0)
- As a professional speaker designer...... - Jon Risch 20:43:45 02/18/07 (15)
- "..you are more likely to be mislead or confused by measurement results ..." -- Condecending attitude toward audiophiles - Richard BassNut Greene 08:36:04 02/19/07 (9)
- Amazing - Jon Risch 21:20:24 02/20/07 (3)
- Re: Amazing - morricab 14:32:13 02/21/07 (1)
- Re: Amazing - Jon Risch 20:36:19 02/21/07 (0)
- Your post is way too long to read but here's a simple example of using measurements for good (me) rather than evil (you) - Richard BassNut Greene 09:08:51 02/21/07 (0)
- Thanks for the reality check.... - Sean 15:25:50 02/19/07 (3)
- They are both right actually - Schu 05:18:28 02/20/07 (2)
- "Jon's (advice) is confidently understated while Richard jams his down your throat like giving a dog a pill." - Richard BassNut Greene 07:35:31 02/20/07 (1)
- Much like you do BassNut, when the subject is subwoofers. NT - franjy 13:59:49 02/20/07 (0)
- Me self [not that anyone aksed (snicker)], could care less how any piece of equipment measures. - Elmo 09:11:57 02/19/07 (0)
- Words of Wisdon Jon - Schu 05:52:06 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: What speakers have you designed? - Jon L5 03:34:47 02/19/07 (2)
- Mr. Risch works for Peavey Electronics - Rob Doorack 05:42:29 02/19/07 (1)
- Peavey heh? That's right! Hey Jon... - Presto 11:28:36 02/19/07 (0)
- Excellent post! Well put! Thank Jon... n/t - Presto 21:01:59 02/18/07 (0)
- Measurements may be very revealing of exceptional performance. - sser2 19:15:08 02/18/07 (4)
- Re :Wide off-axis response - jensw 23:46:38 02/18/07 (3)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - sser2 09:16:30 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - jensw 10:55:50 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Re :Wide off-axis response - sser2 12:54:37 02/19/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - kenster 18:31:29 02/18/07 (5)
- Alnico - Ben P 01:18:11 02/20/07 (2)
- Re: Alnico - kenster 05:37:49 02/20/07 (1)
- Re: Alnico - Ben P 22:40:20 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:23:32 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - kenster 05:31:29 02/20/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Mel 18:02:43 02/18/07 (0)
- Measurements are important but. . . - risabet 17:52:52 02/18/07 (0)
- I think you need a balanced approach - Robert Hamel 17:03:56 02/18/07 (1)
- Re: I think you need a balanced approach - hahax@verizon.net 20:25:22 02/19/07 (0)
- FWIW..... - Todd Krieger 16:38:52 02/18/07 (0)
- Here is my take on it... (long) - Presto 16:14:57 02/18/07 (0)
- Sometimes what's easy to measure isn't what really matters - Duke 15:46:31 02/18/07 (0)
- We all hear differently and have different priorities for what is important to us so a more relevant question might be … - three_sox 15:22:06 02/18/07 (0)
- false dichotomies? - CD 14:27:44 02/18/07 (0)
- Basically true... - Sean 12:29:41 02/18/07 (1)
- Excellent response NT - lancelot 15:32:47 02/18/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 12:27:26 02/18/07 (6)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 21:06:12 02/18/07 (3)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 01:44:22 02/19/07 (2)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - hahax@verizon.net 20:11:36 02/19/07 (1)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - David Aiken 22:26:47 02/19/07 (0)
- I agree measurements can be misleading, but - lenw 13:23:01 02/18/07 (0)
- Well said! nt - clarkjohnsen 13:15:37 02/18/07 (0)
- I don't dismiss measurements, but... - Jim Treanor 12:24:46 02/18/07 (2)
- While I agree with what you say................. - lenw 13:12:49 02/18/07 (1)
- Of course... - Jim Treanor 14:24:49 02/18/07 (0)
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Tom Brennan 12:15:29 02/18/07 (0)
- And your goal is? - Peter Gunn 12:14:26 02/18/07 (0)
- And then, there's the parallel issue of amp measurements...nt - tinear 11:39:38 02/18/07 (0)
- Since measurements only partially capture the performance of speakers, they can contribute in a minor way to evaluations - Norm 11:31:13 02/18/07 (1)
- Measurements are something of a *sine qua non*, but they are far from telling the whole story. nt - clarkjohnsen 13:12:53 02/18/07 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: Speaker Measurements vs. Subjective Listening - Tom Brennan 12:15:29 02/18/07 (0)
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