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In Reply to: I wanna tube! Please advise posted by ck42 on October 31, 2001 at 19:00:58:
First, what is your price range? Is there a shop near you where you could audition some tubed pieces? How about a tube linestage kit? Bottlehead's Foreplay is about as inexpensive as you will find and sounds very good. If you decide to tackle the tweaks, there are lots of things that can be done and the Bottlehead forum is very active with folks who will help you along if you run into problems.The current budget leader in amps seems to be the WAVE AV-8 at $200/pair of pre-built mono blocks. http://www.tubehifi.com/amp/amps.html You can pick up a push-pull EL34 kit from DIY HiFi Supply (there is a link on the opening page of Audio Asylum) for under $500. I have heard nothing but good comments about their 300B kit amps. If you really want to be daring, try a low power (3 watts) Single Ended Triode kit from Bottlehead. There is a distinct difference in the sound of a direct heated SET amp and a PP amp running pentodes tubes (EL34, EL84, etc.)...you should try and experience both before deciding, if you have the opportunity.
Last but not least, if you decide to buy something used, you might try to find one here on the asylum...I don't think it's against the rules to inquire if anyone is SELLING an amp(?). Many of us have perfectly good pieces taking up space and you would be much more likely to get an amp that works well. You might be able to pick up some nice little gem for under $200. They won't be the highest quality around, but they are great for getting your feet wet. Ebay might not be the best place for someone just starting out in tubes, unless you have some electronic knowledge. Having bought a few pieces from auctions, many really need some tuning up and the labor can cost more than the amp is worth. This can be a good way to learn, if that is what you really have in mind. Many folks started out with a Dynaco ST-70 or a Fisher or Scott integrated. When running right, those pieces can deliver very satisfying sound, but even the ST-70s are going for a healthy price nowadays.
And a final word of caution: The voltages inside a piece of tube gear can kill you. It's important to understand what you are dealing with before poking around under the hood!
Hope this helps,
Tom
Follow Ups:
Tom,Yes! you've def. given some more to think about and look at. Though, having over 15 years of electronics backround, I've never even fired up a tube circuit before and pretty much all the tube terminology you shot across my bowe totally lost me ;) That's ok tho...
Those Wave AV-8's look pretty sweet. At $99/ea, THAT'S my kinda budget! ;) If it gets me a decent tube amp and let's me hear what I've been seeing so many talk about, I'm all for it. That tube MG Head DT headphone amp really has me going too!!
Do you have a link for that "Single Ended Triode kit from Bottlehead" ? I'd like to check that out as well.
Unfortunately, with my schedule the way it is, I don't have time for projects right now > :(For right now, I kinda just want something that is plug n chug...no time for refurbing and the like.
Thnx muchos for the info!
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/et.html will get you to the Bottlehead products page. You might want to consider the Foreplay along with the AV-8s. It's a pretty quick kit to build and then there's the satisfaction of having built your own rig. With your background, the consturction should be a snap and then you have the fun of trying the different flavors of tubes that can be run in this little gem. It's hard to imagine changing the voicing of your entire system for $10-40! Something that's nearly nearly impossible to do with the large scale integration in mass-produced SS gear.About the only way I can put the sound of a Directly Heated Triode running in the Single Ended mode, like the Bottlehead amps, into words is to say, organic and immersing. I think there is a common misconception that tube gear, particularly triode amps, sound a little slow compared to their Solid State counterparts. In some cases, yes. There is poorly designed or built tube gear...I know because I have built a few dogs myself. But it most certainly is not always the case. Maybe someone else can shed more light on this than my vocabulary allows...as I am a photographer, not a writer...
Tom
With your electronics background I highly suggest building your own amplifier.You will probably find that it is laughably simple. Some single-ended triode kits have about 25 parts, and they're all really big and easy to work with.
You could build a decent kit in a weekend.
Remember you will almost certainly need new speakers to go with your amp. DIY speakers are also quite easy to build.
Ok! The interesting part of this is the ability to completely change the overall sound of a system....by just changing tubes. That is pretty cool I think. Is this a matter of using the same 'type' of tube but made by a different manufacturer or actually using different 'types' of tubes altogether? The latter seems kinda strange in that it would be the equivalent of throwing in a JFET where a MOSFET was normally used....you can't just do that ;) things have to be changed to accomodate the new type of part.Another thing...if I'm simply wanting to get the 'sound' of the tubes, should I maybe consider a preamp instead? Wouldn't the tube sound simply be passed through the SS amp? If so, would it be the case that a preamp would be less expensive overall seeing that it is a lower power device? ala Bottlehead Foreplay for $149! btw, that is a really nice looking piece of equipment!
...doncha just love newbies :)
I really appreciate the repsonses guys!
I am pretty much SS ingnorant, but with tubes the manufacturers sometimes use different metals and configurations in the internal structures of the same tube type. There can be a big difference in the tone of a Amperex tube compared to an RCA in the same family. And then there are the differences in the years that a particular company might have produced the same basic tube. Not sure if there are these kinds of differences in the SS world. There are all kinds of variants for some of the generic identifications, military/computer/low noise. This accounts for the seemingly crazy numbering scheme for tubes. Then there are some that have similar electrical characteristics and can drop in with very minor changes, and sometimes none, in the circuit. I'm guessing there is a parallel in SS stuff.Check out Joe's Tube Lore in the FAQ section of the Asylum-http://www.audioAsylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html
Gotta run and actually do some work but here's a look at what you might be able to do, given your level of experience, if opt for the Foreplay kit.
Ok...that makes more sense. Yes, in the world of SS, there are analogies. First thing that comes to mind are opamps. There are MANY pin compatible opamps made by different manufacturers of varying quality and characteristics. While each one of them may simply be dropped into a circuit, the individual performance and characteristics of those opamps will vary and thus change the sound characteristics of the circuit.I'm still interested in hearing what anyone has to say regarding the use of a tube preamp and a SS power amp for the purpose of having a 'lower' cost tube 'sounding' output.
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