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In Reply to: Indeed, however.... posted by Monstrous Mike on November 15, 2002 at 13:15:02:
If you like something, having full knowledge of the whole gestalt around it, what's the problem? "I like this wire, it sounds good to me" can be understood as the whole gestalt resulting from the wire, its colour, the phase of the moon, its price, and everything else.What's the problem with that?
At the end of the day, the only point is satisfaction, yes?
I only see a problem when somebody jumps up and makes a scientific claim.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
Follow Ups:
There is no problem, per se, with having a preference. That was not my point. My point is, if you state why you have a preference, like Coke tasting better than Pepsi, and cannot even show you can tell the difference between the two in blind testing, then that says something about your credibility.
Having participated in several single and double blind experiments, I distrust their validity. I do not think the task assigned corresponds to listening to music. Long ago I participated in a double blind preamp test in which the Bozak preamp was pick as best by the designers of many early other preamp designs. I think you do not listen the same in this context as in normal listening. DBT does not certify the scientific method.
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We're talking generalities and principles, not whether the taste test can be conducted perfectly.Can you comment on my hypothesis instead of whether a taste test can be done without bias? Please...
Hmm.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
Hey, are you annoying me because I am a bully?Anyways, back to business. The Perfect Test is the taste test between Coke and Pepsi where all external factors have been eliminated (liquid temperature is the same, same carbonation, same glass, etc.) and the number of test runs is infinity to eliminate statistical errors.
So I'll repeat my question. If you claim you like Coke more than Pepsi because it tastes better, and you cannot tell the difference between the two in a Perfect Test, where does that leave you.
Look up terms like "mouth sealers" in flavour chemistry.Then you'll see why the test you refer to is anything but perfect.
Taste tests have an enormous "hangover" in flavour effects due to the chemestry of how you taste, and in what order.
Just for hoots, see what happens when the drink with the pepsin comes first vs. second.
The ear doesn't have the same kind of history.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
HowdyI believe this is the crux of the problem. You seem to prefer to believe that the subjects are fooling themselves. I seem to believe that the testers are.
You are the one who uses words like credibility describing the subjects. I wonder, who has the most to gain or loose in a test, the testers or the subjects? Now I don't really believe that there are that many disingenuous testers out there, good tests are just had to design. I'm just saying that if a test gives a non intuitive answer, IMO the design of the test should be given at least as much scrutiny as the credibility of the subjects.
I said MT.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
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